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Overcharging the battery |
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KENO 
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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 Topic: Overcharging the batteryPosted: September-07-2020 at 6:22am |
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Got that "I" terminal figured out yet Pete
Edit.........I guess you're still figuring it out Pete, but for anybody else that's reading, the "I" terminal only has power when the key is in Start and no power in Run, so it's not of any use for powering the choke or providing voltage to the "S" terminal when the engine is running.
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KENO
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Posted: September-06-2020 at 12:06pm |
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We might set a record for number of quotes in one post here Pete You need to think about when the "I" terminal actually has any power supplied to it and then decide if that's what you want powering? your choke Pete
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Posted: September-06-2020 at 11:58am |
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Ken, My thinking is why did they what resistance on the REGULATOR. BTW, the "I" terminal on the start relay is closer than the regulator so, that's an even HANDIER spot to pick up 12 volts.
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KENO
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Posted: September-06-2020 at 11:23am |
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I guess I don't know what you're thinking but it's(the s terminal) just a handy place to grab 12 volts and feed it to the choke No feed to the alternator at all from that wire
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: September-06-2020 at 8:35am |
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Ken, Yes I did bring it up after checking the alternator/regulator wiring on the Escort and finding the connection to the choke coil. I don't know what the resistance in the circuit is doing and it sounds like you don't have any idea ether!
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KENO
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Posted: September-06-2020 at 6:30am |
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I guess you should tell me, you're the one who brought up the choke coil to begin with
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: September-06-2020 at 6:11am |
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Ken, What is the resistance of the choke coil doing for the regulator circuit?
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KENO
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Posted: September-05-2020 at 6:22pm |
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Those things that read anywhere from 7 to 13 ohms.........they're what worked. And the choke coil is gonna have no effect on his charging voltage, like I said in the same quote,so he'll still have his charging system issue  |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: September-05-2020 at 3:49pm |
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What worked? The electric choke or the Escort charging system with 7 to 13 Ohms at the choke coil?
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KENO
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Posted: September-05-2020 at 3:40pm |
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Here's a picture of hooking up a 1 wire Delco  If you can count you'll say "but there are 2 wires" They don't count the ground wire for some reason. You don't really need the ground wire because the case is grounded to the engine through the mounting bolts and a lot of people don't use it but it's pretty easy to put it on. Hooking up a 3 wire Delco (with 4 wires counting the ground)  Same Black ground wire hookup and Orange output wire hookup The Red wire is the sensing wire for the internal regulator and in your situation hooking it to the output terminal works well. The black wire next to it that's hooked to the green wire is the 12 volt excitation for the alternator. The Green wire color is just because that's what I pulled out of the drawer The 1 wire alternator is "self exciting". When you start the engine and rev it to a little over 1000 rpm's, the alternator is now excited and starts charging.Once it's charging, it will keep charging till you turn the engine off. Then on the next start, you rev it to 1000 or so and it's charging again. You can come down to idle speed and it'll keep charging as long as you revved it enough to excite itself. The 3 wire needs 12 volts from a keyed ignition source to make it's regulator start charging. No revving it up is necessary. The 3 wire can sense system voltage anywhere in the electrical system depending on where you hook the wire to. In your case with a boat that doesn't have any big electrical loads, sensing right at the output terminal works well. And.......since any of these alternators are a lot more powerful than your original the easiest way to protect your boat wiring which won't really handle much more than the original alternator's 37 or 40 or so amps is to put a 40 amp fuse right at the alternator output. You won't use all the amps the alternator can put out if you get a 100 amp alternator, you're basically limiting it to 40 amps. Some people just slap on a 100 or more amp alternator with no fuse at the output and can under the right circumstances melt wiring, make all kinda' sparks under the engine box and that's never a good thing Here's a picture of a fuse setup that would work. The wiring to the fuse should be at least as big as the 10 gauge alternator output wire. If you want to use all 100 or so amps, then to be protected you'd need some larger wiring all the way from the alternator to the ammeter in the dash and back to the engine again and you'd need the same size ground wiring. The simplest but still effective setup would be the 1 wire alternator with a 40 amp fuse on it's output and the rest of your boat wiring could handle that. Like with most things in life, there's more than one way to do do it, so maybe you'll get some other opinions.  |
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KENO
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Posted: September-05-2020 at 2:57pm |
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Ken didn't calculate 10, he just gave that as an approximate value. I've seen then anywhere from 7 to 13 ohms and they all worked. It isn't gonna have any affect on his charging voltage.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: September-05-2020 at 11:27am |
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The resistance on your choke coil is low. Ken calculated 10 and I was getting arond 11.
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NMiles77
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Posted: September-05-2020 at 10:50am |
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Ken post both pictures of the wiring
of the one and three wire Delco alternators, I was looking at them on DB website. The one wire is very tempting and the price is right. |
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NMiles77
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Posted: September-05-2020 at 10:42am |
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Pete I put my DMM across the choke coil. I had 7.1 ohms and 7.2 ohms to the block. So it’s not shunted. We will put the boat back in the water tomorrow. I will again measure the voltage across battery when the engine is running.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: August-31-2020 at 8:39am |
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Nathan,
My choke coil reads at 11.5 Ohms across the coil and 11.7 to the engine block. Check yours both ways just to make sure the coil isn't shunted to ground.
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KENO
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Posted: August-31-2020 at 7:16am |
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Hurry up Pete, you should have it by now Probably right around 10 ohms and it draws about 1 amp when energized
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KENO
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Posted: August-31-2020 at 7:11am |
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You could take the alternator and regulator to an auto electric shop and let the guy test them together or...............you could buy a 1 wire Delco style marine alternator and install that for simplicity. It's internally regulated, so no external regulator needed.
The 1 wire hookup is the output terminal that you hook your Orange wire to I'd put a 40 amp fuse at the output terminal to protect the wiring from overcurrent since the original alternator was about 40 amps max capacity and that's what the wiring up to the ammeter and back to the battery is sized for. You could also get a 3 wire Delco style with the same internal regulation and the wiring is just about as easy, you just need 12 volts for excitation of it's internal regulator. The 1 wire is self excited at about 1000 rpm or so and the 3 wire needs to have excitation provided Plenty of people have done the "Delco swap" Depending on the bracketry, minor mods might be involved If you were to look at DB Electrical part numbers ADR0106 and ADR0334 you'd see a 3 wire and a 1 wire and their prices I could post some pictures of both with the wiring hookup shown later if you're thinking about that route.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: August-31-2020 at 7:00am |
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Nathan,
Another thought: get an Ohm reading of the electric choke. I'll get mine and report back.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: August-31-2020 at 6:43am |
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What's the voltage at the battery?
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NMiles77
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Posted: August-31-2020 at 6:27am |
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Guys final got the boat back on the water. I had installed a new voltage regulator. When the engine is running 1000 rpms or greater the ammeter is still near +40. I am wondering if it the alternator. You guys got any other suggestions?
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KENO
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Posted: August-26-2020 at 8:23am |
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Now that's teamwork What should we tackle next Pete?
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: August-26-2020 at 7:57am |
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In order to avoid further harassment, I felt it best to bow to Ken's demands. Here's the confirmation that the S terminal on the regulator does indeed go to the electric choke. Since the age has blended the colors of the wires and I didn't want to tear into the harness, I thought it best to Ohm it out.
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KENO
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Posted: August-26-2020 at 6:59am |
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Burb Your wife is probably glad it's back too That picture of Pete's alternator is pretty good. He even took it off the mounts to get a good shot I think he probably knew I'd harass him if he didn't get a good picture Now we just have to see if the wire from the S terminal on the regulator goes to the choke on Pete's boat.
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burban65
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Posted: August-25-2020 at 5:01pm |
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Although still interesting..........These threads are not as much fun to read when Ken and Pete are working together in such harmony........just saying
 Yes, I did miss you guys (and this site) when it was down.............I actually had to start hanging with my wife (and talking to her) in the evening.........instead of being on CCF. I am glad things are getting back to "normal"
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SRB
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NMiles77
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Posted: August-25-2020 at 2:25pm |
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Pete, the new version regulator has the exact same terminal lay out as my old. I will get some pictures, unfortunately the weather has not allowed a lake test yet. I will get back to this thread with pictures.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: August-25-2020 at 10:44am |
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Nathan, Does this new version have the same terminal designations as the old one I have pictured and Ken has described or does it just have wire pigtails? A piture of what you have sure would help. Again, have you tried the new one yet? If so, what are the results?
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: August-24-2020 at 8:11pm |
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 Brown on the field and black on the ground.
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: August-24-2020 at 7:32pm |
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Nathan,
Have you tried the new regualtor yet? You said you were heading down to the lake to see how it works. I'll take a look at the backside of my alternator and get back.
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KENO
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Posted: August-24-2020 at 5:13pm |
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Nathan
Now you need to hope that Pete will look at the back of his alternator and see what wires are connected to what terminals. Maybe even another picture will appear There's a good chance that there's nothing hooked to the S terminal on the his alternator. There's a lot of confusing info on Motorcraft regulators/alternators depending on the year(s) they were used. And.........that S terminal going to the choke just might be right.(providing 12 volts to the choke coil)
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NMiles77
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Posted: August-24-2020 at 5:06pm |
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The old voltage regulator was putting out 17 volts a cross the battery at idol speed. The replacement Voltage regulator I bought is the new version of the pictured. There is no stator wire from alternator to the voltage regulator terminal S. When I look at the alternator there is +battery, - ground, and field wire. There is not stator connected wire. The S terminal on the voltage regulator had a wire I traced to the + input terminal of the electronic choke on the carb. So that wasn’t correct and made no sense.
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8122pbrainard wrote: