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Shaft Alignment Question

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    Posted: April-08-2021 at 11:03pm
My 97 Sport didn’t have the oil drain hose, so I bought the kit from nautiqueparts.com, and used a little bottle jack to slightly raise the one side of the motor to allow me to install the hose. I found some threads here about shaft alignment and also a YouTube video on it. 

As I understand it there is supposed to be a gap in the coupler (where the green arrow is pointing) to check with a feeler gauge. Mine appears to have no gap. Am I missing something?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 12:18am
Take the 4 bolts out and separate the couplers. When you bring them back together you check to see if the mating surfaces are within 3 one-thousands at 0, 90, 180, and 270.  You also need to see how the shaft is centered in the log.  Good time to repack the stuffing while you are at it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 5:45am
You mention seeing a video, but not which one, if you click the links below, you'll maybe get your question answered 







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 7:28am
Originally posted by TG3 TG3 wrote:

As I understand it there is supposed to be a gap in the coupler (where the green arrow is pointing) to check with a feeler gauge. Mine appears to have no gap. Am I missing something?


Trey,
You missed what is being done with the gap. The gap is ONLY there when you are measuring for parallelism between the coupling faces. The engine is moved in any direction so the max difference side to side top to bottom is .003". This assures the prop shaft is aligned with the engine. After you get the max of .003"  the coupling halves are tightened. Take another look at one of the videos Ken linked.  Also as JQ mentioned, the prop shaft should be centered in the log. One other item on alignment is the shaft should also rotate freely in the cutlass bearing in the strut. 

Considering you moved the engine, I highly recommend a complete check for alignment.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 8:58am
Thank you guys. I will take a look at these video this evening. I am pretty sure I need replace the cutlass bearings too, If I grab the prop end of the shaft I detect about an 1/8" of up/down/side to side play. As I understand it there should be no play, right?

I bet these videos will answer another question I had about how to remove the shaft itself. I will also search up the forum and YouTube for some repacking videos. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 9:20am
Trey,
Yes, you shouldn't be able to feel any shaft movement in the cutlass. 

On the removal of the coupling half off the prop shaft:

Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

Here is how I removed the coupler from the shaft In my direct drive.  First, I removed the safety collar from the driveshaft. Then I removed the bolts connecting the coupler to the transmission flange and separated the coupler from transmission flange. I was able to get 2” To 3” space between coupler and transmission flange.  Then I inserted a large, shallow socket between the coupler and transmission flange.  I then inserted some grade 8 bolts, washers and nuts through the coupler bolt holes and through the transmission flange.  Then by tightening down on the 4 bolts/nuts in sequence, the coupler on the prop shaft was “pressed” off the shaft.  Easy Peazy.  Hopefully my description makes sense. .

JQ

Using find thread bolts and never seize will make it go easier. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 10:38am
Thank you Pete!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 11:10am
TG

Multiple opportunities await youWink

You're gonna have the opportunity to learn how to take the coupling off your straight shaft with an interference fit as already mentioned.

Then you'll have the opportunity to learn how to remove the rudder so you can slide the shaft out

Then you should look at the rubber hose connecting the shaft log to the stuffing box because it's the ideal time to replace it if it looks old,ugly and cracked etc.

And then the opportunity to learn how to put that interference fit coupler back on the shaft which isn't any fun at all.

There are ways to make life easier by installing a double taper shaft but that comes with a price (new shaft and coupling).

Then reinstalling the rudder and deciding if you want to repack it at the same time.

I'd do lots of homework with searches here on CCF and elsewhere.

Some people might remove the rudder, leave the shaft alone and remove the strut to do the bearings, then reinstall the strut and do an alignment check. It avoids the shaft coupling removal and install issues  You don't get the opportunity to replace the hose between the stuffing box and the packing gland though Wink  

Edit, based on a thought by Wetskier 2000 in a different thread, you could leave the rudder in place, unbolt the coupling halves and should have enough wiggle room to move the shaft enough to get the strut past the rudder.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 2:33pm
Ken, how lucky I am to have these opportunities!
Seriously, thanks for the run down. I will do some research and see what I am about to get into.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by TG3 TG3 wrote:

Ken, how lucky I am to have these opportunities!
Seriously, thanks for the run down. I will do some research and see what I am about to get into.



You sure are Wink

With the amount of slop you have, it's a good thing to take care of it now though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2021 at 9:41pm
Luckily you have a Sport which makes dropping the rudder so much easier than a Ski Nautique. 
On my '95 SN I found it easier to drop the strut instead of removing the gas tank to get to the rudder. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-12-2021 at 11:37am
I appreciate all the help and the great info posted on this forum. I have done a lot of reading and watching this weekend on all the parts of this job. There was a great post by John (Foot Fungus) about the coupler and options for replacing. Rob (Jonny Quest) sent me his phone number and spent and hour on the phone with me talking through his experiences, which was very helpful.

So my plan of action is to replace the shaft and coupler with the double taper system, replace the cutlass bearings, repack the stuffing box and add a safety collar to the shaft. While doing all this I'm going to very carefully and patiently check all the alignments to make sure it is straight and true.

Now to start spending money amassing parts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2021 at 9:22pm
Today I removed the prop and cut the old shaft to remove and measure it so I could order a new double taper shaft (and strut bearings, packing etc....)

The shaft hits the rudder, which is logical and i expected to happen. Before I research how to remove/reinstall the rudder, I thought I would ask if there is any trick I’m missing to get the shaft out without removing the rudder. 

If I have to remove the rudder, any tips (or links) you would recommend? I’ll search the site and the inter web/YouTube etc as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2021 at 9:59pm
Either have someone underneath catch as it falls (when that nut comes off) or maybe have a floor jack holding it up until you get down from the bilge.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2021 at 11:36pm
And do I have to pull the tank (that is full of 28 gallons of fuel) or can the rudder be dropped and repacked by reaching under? It looks like it would be tight, but could be done?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcam4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2021 at 11:37pm
I just put some wood underneath the rudder and loosened it some and kept checking it to make sure it wouldn't fall out.  The hardest part of the rudder is getting the safety wire back on it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 1:49pm
I have all the parts collected and I’m starting work today.

First problem - Strut bearings - The set screws are jammed up tight and can’t get them out. I remember reading somewhere that you can drill them out and then re-tap the holes and put in new set screws.

Anyone have a recommendation on what kind of setscrews I should buy? Should they be brass or stainless steel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 2:01pm
Trey,
Stainless will be easier to find. I've never had a problem with them being a dissimilar metal but, I'm in fresh  water. If you do get into salt or brackish It may be good to look for brass.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 2:22pm
Thanks Pete. Only salt water here so I’ll go with Stainless. Maybe Lowe’s will have them and I can finish today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 3:05pm

Originally posted by TG3 TG3 wrote:

I have all the parts collected and I’m starting work today.

First problem - Strut bearings - The set screws are jammed up tight and can’t get them out. I remember reading somewhere that you can drill them out and then re-tap the holes and put in new set screws.

Anyone have a recommendation on what kind of setscrews I should buy? Should they be brass or stainless steel?


Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Trey,
Stainless will be easier to find. I've never had a problem with them being a dissimilar metal but, I'm in fresh  water. If you do get into salt or brackish It may be good to look for brass.

Originally posted by TG3 TG3 wrote:

Thanks Pete. Only salt water here so I’ll go with Stainless. Maybe Lowe’s will have them and I can finish today.


Let's see..........Pete says using stainless is OK in fresh water but in salt or brackish water brass is better.(for galvanic corrosion reasons)

So you say you're in salt water and you're gonna use stainless. 

Something's wrong here Wink 

Maybe you meant to say "no salt water here"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 3:19pm
Oops! I did mean FRESH water only. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 6:23pm
Is the length of the rubber hose between the log and the packing gland critical? My old one measures 3 1/2”. The new piece I bought came in 4” length. Do I need to trim it to 3 1/2”?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 6:36pm
Trey,
As long as there's room between the packing gland, the safety collar and the shaft trans coupling, there's no problem. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 6:42pm
Thanks Pete!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 6:49pm
The only salt Pete comes across is whats on his Margarita glass or the stuff they use on his street 10 months a year Wink
Oh look here's a picture of the tiller assembly on a boat that just spent 8 years in salt water- it's got stainless!
It is my understanding is that brass is not good in saltwater- bronze is preferred. I was warned by the Shamrock guys that people use brass water intake fittings because they can go to their local hardware store an buy them rather than use bronze which is more expensive and harder to find. I think it's the zinc in the brass that acts like a sacrificial anode and starts dissolving. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 7:26pm

Bronze and stainless are good together. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by TG3 TG3 wrote:

Is the length of the rubber hose between the log and the packing gland critical? My old one measures 3 1/2”. The new piece I bought came in 4” length. Do I need to trim it to 3 1/2”?

I can think of a couple of reasons why you might want to consider shortening the hose to the original length of 3 1/2 inches

One is that if you want to repack the shaft in the future sometime, it's nice to have all the room you can to slide the gland nut forward so you can pick out the old packing and put new stuff in

Another is that with your double tapered shaft, if you want to remove the coupling at some time in the future, you need a tool to do it. Depending on the brand of shaft and coupling there are different tools and methods, but having all the space you can will make things easier.

You may have a country mile of space with the 4 inch hose, but a country mile and a half inch just might make life a lot easier in the future Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2021 at 10:16pm
Good advice Keno, I’ll get my extra 1/2”.

So here is the next question, which is finally coming back around to my post title. I have the new strut bearings installed. I slid the new shaft into place to check if it was centered in the log. It is not. The shaft is off center to the starboard side and down. It is not touching the log, but definitely not in the center. I slid the shaft all the way up so that it touched the transmission coupler, and the over and down is apparent there too. I did some measuring and the shaft is approximately 17/64” off center at the log. That’s just under 1/4”. Watching some videos from Ski Dim and Ron Tanis, I don’t think it has to be perfectly centered, but surely closer than what I have now.....

One thing puzzles me. When I uncoupled the old shaft, I don’t remember it dropping down and over, which it should have done and more so, considering the worn bearings. 

I inspected the strut and it appears to be straight, with no visible bends or damage/scraps to indicate that it may have been hit. When you look at the depression in the hull where the strut is bolted through, the strut is shifted to starboard, not centered in the depression, corresponding with the offset position in the log. 

What is the next step I should take to get the shaft more centered in the log?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2021 at 6:02am
When you uncoupled the old shaft, you probably still had the packing nut tight and helping to hold the shaft up.

It sounds like now you just slid the shaft through for a quick check and there's nothing tending to hold it up.

It also sounds like that's probably why your bearings were so worn and what is it that Pete always says......."alignment starts at the strut".

I'm figuring he'll be along to tell you that the strut should come off so it can be moved enough to get the shaft pretty well centered in the log. 

PS you Texans must have longer inches than the rest of us. I guess everything really is bigger in Texas Wink

Originally posted by TG3 TG3 wrote:

I did some measuring and the shaft is approximately 17/64” off center at the log. That’s just under 1/4”. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2021 at 7:14am
Trey,
The centering of the shaft in the log doesn't have to be perfect but the 1/4" is more than I would feel comfortable with. Also, the 1/4" puts the shaft very close if not actually touching the log. You mention the strut doesn't look bent but it's tough to see by just a visual. At one time it may have been installed incorrectly too?  The solution is removing the strut, cleaning it and the hull up and then refastening it aligned. Port to starboard alignment of the strut can be done with the slop/clearance of the mounting holes/bolts. Minor up and down is down is done with washers between the strut base and the hull. In your case to raise the shaft at the log, you would put the washers at the aft holes. Dry fit the strut to cleck the alignment first. 


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