Shaft Alignment Question |
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Posted: April-08-2021 at 11:03pm |
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My 97 Sport didn’t have the oil drain hose, so I bought the kit from nautiqueparts.com, and used a little bottle jack to slightly raise the one side of the motor to allow me to install the hose. I found some threads here about shaft alignment and also a YouTube video on it.
As I understand it there is supposed to be a gap in the coupler (where the green arrow is pointing) to check with a feeler gauge. Mine appears to have no gap. Am I missing something? |
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2972 |
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Take the 4 bolts out and separate the couplers. When you bring them back together you check to see if the mating surfaces are within 3 one-thousands at 0, 90, 180, and 270. You also need to see how the shaft is centered in the log. Good time to repack the stuffing while you are at it.
JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11090 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Trey, You missed what is being done with the gap. The gap is ONLY there when you are measuring for parallelism between the coupling faces. The engine is moved in any direction so the max difference side to side top to bottom is .003". This assures the prop shaft is aligned with the engine. After you get the max of .003" the coupling halves are tightened. Take another look at one of the videos Ken linked. Also as JQ mentioned, the prop shaft should be centered in the log. One other item on alignment is the shaft should also rotate freely in the cutlass bearing in the strut. Considering you moved the engine, I highly recommend a complete check for alignment.
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Thank you guys. I will take a look at these video this evening. I am pretty sure I need replace the cutlass bearings too, If I grab the prop end of the shaft I detect about an 1/8" of up/down/side to side play. As I understand it there should be no play, right?
I bet these videos will answer another question I had about how to remove the shaft itself. I will also search up the forum and YouTube for some repacking videos. |
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Trey,
Yes, you shouldn't be able to feel any shaft movement in the cutlass. On the removal of the coupling half off the prop shaft:
Using find thread bolts and never seize will make it go easier.
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Thank you Pete!
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11090 |
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TG
Multiple opportunities await you You're gonna have the opportunity to learn how to take the coupling off your straight shaft with an interference fit as already mentioned. Then you'll have the opportunity to learn how to remove the rudder so you can slide the shaft out Then you should look at the rubber hose connecting the shaft log to the stuffing box because it's the ideal time to replace it if it looks old,ugly and cracked etc. And then the opportunity to learn how to put that interference fit coupler back on the shaft which isn't any fun at all. There are ways to make life easier by installing a double taper shaft but that comes with a price (new shaft and coupling). Then reinstalling the rudder and deciding if you want to repack it at the same time. I'd do lots of homework with searches here on CCF and elsewhere. Some people might remove the rudder, leave the shaft alone and remove the strut to do the bearings, then reinstall the strut and do an alignment check. It avoids the shaft coupling removal and install issues You don't get the opportunity to replace the hose between the stuffing box and the packing gland though Edit, based on a thought by Wetskier 2000 in a different thread, you could leave the rudder in place, unbolt the coupling halves and should have enough wiggle room to move the shaft enough to get the strut past the rudder. |
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Ken, how lucky I am to have these opportunities!
Seriously, thanks for the run down. I will do some research and see what I am about to get into. |
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11090 |
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You sure are With the amount of slop you have, it's a good thing to take care of it now though.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Luckily you have a Sport which makes dropping the rudder so much easier than a Ski Nautique.
On my '95 SN I found it easier to drop the strut instead of removing the gas tank to get to the rudder.
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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I appreciate all the help and the great info posted on this forum. I have done a lot of reading and watching this weekend on all the parts of this job. There was a great post by John (Foot Fungus) about the coupler and options for replacing. Rob (Jonny Quest) sent me his phone number and spent and hour on the phone with me talking through his experiences, which was very helpful.
So my plan of action is to replace the shaft and coupler with the double taper system, replace the cutlass bearings, repack the stuffing box and add a safety collar to the shaft. While doing all this I'm going to very carefully and patiently check all the alignments to make sure it is straight and true. Now to start spending money amassing parts!
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Today I removed the prop and cut the old shaft to remove and measure it so I could order a new double taper shaft (and strut bearings, packing etc....)
The shaft hits the rudder, which is logical and i expected to happen. Before I research how to remove/reinstall the rudder, I thought I would ask if there is any trick I’m missing to get the shaft out without removing the rudder. If I have to remove the rudder, any tips (or links) you would recommend? I’ll search the site and the inter web/YouTube etc as well.
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Either have someone underneath catch as it falls (when that nut comes off) or maybe have a floor jack holding it up until you get down from the bilge.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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And do I have to pull the tank (that is full of 28 gallons of fuel) or can the rudder be dropped and repacked by reaching under? It looks like it would be tight, but could be done?
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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gcam4
Groupie Joined: March-21-2017 Location: Charlotte, NC Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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I just put some wood underneath the rudder and loosened it some and kept checking it to make sure it wouldn't fall out. The hardest part of the rudder is getting the safety wire back on it!
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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I have all the parts collected and I’m starting work today.
First problem - Strut bearings - The set screws are jammed up tight and can’t get them out. I remember reading somewhere that you can drill them out and then re-tap the holes and put in new set screws. Anyone have a recommendation on what kind of setscrews I should buy? Should they be brass or stainless steel? |
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Trey,
Stainless will be easier to find. I've never had a problem with them being a dissimilar metal but, I'm in fresh water. If you do get into salt or brackish It may be good to look for brass.
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Thanks Pete. Only salt water here so I’ll go with Stainless. Maybe Lowe’s will have them and I can finish today.
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11090 |
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Let's see..........Pete says using stainless is OK in fresh water but in salt or brackish water brass is better.(for galvanic corrosion reasons) So you say you're in salt water and you're gonna use stainless. Something's wrong here Maybe you meant to say "no salt water here"
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Oops! I did mean FRESH water only. Thanks!
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Is the length of the rubber hose between the log and the packing gland critical? My old one measures 3 1/2”. The new piece I bought came in 4” length. Do I need to trim it to 3 1/2”?
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Trey,
As long as there's room between the packing gland, the safety collar and the shaft trans coupling, there's no problem.
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Thanks Pete!
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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The only salt Pete comes across is whats on his Margarita glass or the stuff they use on his street 10 months a year
Oh look here's a picture of the tiller assembly on a boat that just spent 8 years in salt water- it's got stainless! It is my understanding is that brass is not good in saltwater- bronze is preferred. I was warned by the Shamrock guys that people use brass water intake fittings because they can go to their local hardware store an buy them rather than use bronze which is more expensive and harder to find. I think it's the zinc in the brass that acts like a sacrificial anode and starts dissolving. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bronze and stainless are good together.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11090 |
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I can think of a couple of reasons why you might want to consider shortening the hose to the original length of 3 1/2 inches One is that if you want to repack the shaft in the future sometime, it's nice to have all the room you can to slide the gland nut forward so you can pick out the old packing and put new stuff in Another is that with your double tapered shaft, if you want to remove the coupling at some time in the future, you need a tool to do it. Depending on the brand of shaft and coupling there are different tools and methods, but having all the space you can will make things easier. You may have a country mile of space with the 4 inch hose, but a country mile and a half inch just might make life a lot easier in the future
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TG3
Senior Member Joined: May-29-2020 Location: Tyler, Texas Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Good advice Keno, I’ll get my extra 1/2”.
So here is the next question, which is finally coming back around to my post title. I have the new strut bearings installed. I slid the new shaft into place to check if it was centered in the log. It is not. The shaft is off center to the starboard side and down. It is not touching the log, but definitely not in the center. I slid the shaft all the way up so that it touched the transmission coupler, and the over and down is apparent there too. I did some measuring and the shaft is approximately 17/64” off center at the log. That’s just under 1/4”. Watching some videos from Ski Dim and Ron Tanis, I don’t think it has to be perfectly centered, but surely closer than what I have now..... One thing puzzles me. When I uncoupled the old shaft, I don’t remember it dropping down and over, which it should have done and more so, considering the worn bearings. I inspected the strut and it appears to be straight, with no visible bends or damage/scraps to indicate that it may have been hit. When you look at the depression in the hull where the strut is bolted through, the strut is shifted to starboard, not centered in the depression, corresponding with the offset position in the log. What is the next step I should take to get the shaft more centered in the log?
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1997 Air/Sport Nautique
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11090 |
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When you uncoupled the old shaft, you probably still had the packing nut tight and helping to hold the shaft up.
It sounds like now you just slid the shaft through for a quick check and there's nothing tending to hold it up. It also sounds like that's probably why your bearings were so worn and what is it that Pete always says......."alignment starts at the strut". I'm figuring he'll be along to tell you that the strut should come off so it can be moved enough to get the shaft pretty well centered in the log. PS you Texans must have longer inches than the rest of us. I guess everything really is bigger in Texas
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Trey,
The centering of the shaft in the log doesn't have to be perfect but the 1/4" is more than I would feel comfortable with. Also, the 1/4" puts the shaft very close if not actually touching the log. You mention the strut doesn't look bent but it's tough to see by just a visual. At one time it may have been installed incorrectly too? The solution is removing the strut, cleaning it and the hull up and then refastening it aligned. Port to starboard alignment of the strut can be done with the slop/clearance of the mounting holes/bolts. Minor up and down is down is done with washers between the strut base and the hull. In your case to raise the shaft at the log, you would put the washers at the aft holes. Dry fit the strut to cleck the alignment first.
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