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fanofccfan 
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Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1722 |
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 Posted: September-13-2023 at 8:18am |
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I would not have thought of that fix. Glad to see its up and working. Way to go Keno!
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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NCH20SKIER
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Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
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Posted: September-13-2023 at 8:30am |
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Keno to the rescue (agian)
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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Faceplant
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Joined: July-27-2013 Location: Otter Lake , Mi Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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Posted: September-13-2023 at 9:44pm |
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So difficult but yet so simple - when you know it.
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Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6.
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KENO
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Posted: September-14-2023 at 6:14am |
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Here's the typical routing of the suction hose on a PCM 351. Earlier ones had no strainer but the hose ran the same way. From the intake it went under the transmission/driveshaft, then up and over the transmission to the cooler inlet, then downhill to the pump, so lots of water is retained in the line for an easier prime.
You had a line that stayed full from the high point above the transmission to the pump suction even when the boat was out of the water.  |
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DenDen
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Posted: September-14-2023 at 8:36am |
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Once again, thanks Ken for all of your help.
Planning on going out for a longer cruise over the weekend. Details to follow. |
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KENO
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Posted: September-14-2023 at 12:54pm |
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Like I said earlier
Your last review of what was done and the pictures were what helped a whole bunch. After the winter rebuild, go for the high loop over the transmission
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DenDen
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Posted: September-14-2023 at 2:24pm |
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Once again, thanks Ken for all of your help.
Planning on going out for a longer cruise over the weekend. Details to follow. |
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3594 |
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Posted: September-14-2023 at 4:25pm |
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I have owned and worked on these old boats for 40 years now, never considered a loop seal, I guess I have seen the routing numerous times but never thought of it as part of the supply function, I always assumed the pump had enough suction to pull from the boat bottom. Nice work figuring this one out.
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KENO
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Posted: September-16-2023 at 7:56am |
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These pumps can self prime from quite a height. You see various numbers thrown around like 15 to 20 ft. but pump speed, impeller condition, tightness of the suction side all affect it's ability.
I think Dennis's pump has a hard time priming itself for whatever reason and the loop helps him a lot. I'd say that normally for most of us, the hose routing just helps things prime easier and isn't absolutely necessary, but it makes the pumps life easier by keeping the impeller submerged for the next start |
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DenDen
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Posted: September-17-2023 at 8:58am |
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Speaking of the next start, took the boat out again yesterday and everything was fine. No priming issues, no heating issues, everything was great. However, I do have one issue to work on and that would be the tach.
At wide-open throttle, the boat goes up to about 40 mph(gps) at which time the motor is over speeding. At least that’s what the tach says. After riding around some more and studying the tach it seems to be rather erratic. Sometimes moving when the motor does not change speed, sometimes staying still when the motor does change speed. I am sure it’s just a wiring problem when they converted from points to electronic. I will resolve and take her back out. |
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gun-driver
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Posted: September-17-2023 at 11:20am |
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If it were me, during the rebuild I would put in a strainer like in Ken’s picture. Not only for the “loop seal” but to help keep debris out of the cooling system and transmission cooler.
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DenDen
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Posted: September-18-2023 at 10:54am |
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Great advice I’ll keep that in mind
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DenDen
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Posted: September-22-2023 at 9:01am |
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To finish up this posting here is an update:
Took the boat out with a working tachometer and ran it around the lake a good bit the other day. WOT IS 4000 RPMS AND 40 MPH. BOAT IS SET UP PERFECTLY. The exhaust manifolds never got too hot to lay your hand on so I think everything is pretty good. I plan on doing a little more boating this year, and then tear into it when the weather changes. Thanks again for everyone’s help. I am sure I will be calling on the knowledge of this form again. |
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63 Skier
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Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4232 |
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Posted: September-22-2023 at 10:09am |
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Glad to hear you are enjoying the boat now! I know nothing about a Chevy 307, they certainly used a variety of engines in the earlier years. No idea what you have on for a prop but I'm guessing you could find 300-400 rpm and a bit more speed with a new prop.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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DenDen
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Posted: September-22-2023 at 10:28am |
   I have no idea what it is either |
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KENO
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Posted: September-22-2023 at 12:24pm |
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It was probably the standard original prop on your boat.
It's 13 inch diameter by13 inch pitch
Ellis props were used on CC's in the mid 70's along with a few other brands. Some people would call it a paperweight, but it does a pretty good job of moving your boat/engine combination along.  |
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63 Skier
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Posted: September-22-2023 at 12:30pm |
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So it's an Ellis 13x13 RH with some cup. I don't think Ellis is still in business. "Modern" CNC machined props improve performance, it can be pretty significant. The trick is finding the right prop to match the boat, and there is tremendous knowledge here on that subject. Someone will know how to match a prop to a 307 powered '73 SW 18. I took a quick look and I think that engine was rated at 235 or 245 HP. Then again for general lake cruising it's a question of whether that performance gain is worthwhile to you, spending maybe $400 on a prop to gain a few mph.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3594 |
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Posted: September-22-2023 at 7:38pm |
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The 307 is a parts bin engine from GM. They are actually very nice engines, great torque for a small engine but not big on horsepower.
They came about because GM was selling 327 blocks with 283 crankshafts in them to make the 302 combination which was a very high RPM performance engine. Not big on torque though. The leftover 283 blocks had 327 crankshafts installed and the longer stroke made the 307. Small bore long stroke make a nice high torque small block for its size but they were not high horsepower. GM only sold them with a 2 bbl carb. Turning a 13x13 prop that might be the best a good running 307 can offer. The larger 350 and 351 engines only turned maybe 44-4800 with that prop. The 307's in good shape got good MPG and ran well, just don't race a 350.
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DenDen
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Posted: September-22-2023 at 11:40pm |
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Thanks for the info. As usual great forum with great people.
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KENO
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Posted: September-23-2023 at 7:01am |
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What's that 225 on the valve covers in his picture from earlier in this thread?
If you want a prop suggestion.............Acme 542 13x11.5 I'd do whatever you're gonna do like stringers, floor and get it all back together and running before thinking about another prop though.  |
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DenDen
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Posted: September-23-2023 at 3:29pm |
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225 is horsepower. And I probably won’t do anything till spring with a prop, or possibly a different intake and carburetor.
Definitely going with a different exhaust system. First, I have to verify what heads are on the thing. |
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tryathlete
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Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Posted: September-25-2023 at 10:15am |
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This is why I love this site.
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DenDen
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Posted: October-11-2023 at 9:21pm |
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Thinking about rolling out a totally new power plant.
Going to put something in the 350s will have to worry about. I have kind of decided I need something close to 300 HP She may not come out pretty so she might as will be fast Hope I don’t eat these words in the spring |
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MrMcD
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Posted: October-11-2023 at 10:13pm |
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Most GM small blocks will bolt right in as long as you are before the LS blocks came out. From 1986 and newer they have a full round rear main seal and you would need a different flywheel. In addition to the 350 you can upgrade to a 383 or even a 400 small block for more smiles.
My Malibu had the bone stock GM 350 260 HP, I acquired all the parts to build that into a 383 including AFR heads but the dang 350 ran so well and never gave me any trouble so I never did that engine swap.
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swilliams
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Posted: October-12-2023 at 5:42am |
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I agree with Mark. My 350 runs real well bone stock and I wouldn’t modify it. It’s just the little quirks that Omc added that make you scratch your head(rwp for one). Most internals are still available for the GM.
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1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc.
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DenDen
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Posted: October-12-2023 at 6:02pm |
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You are probably right I should just let it alone and maybe change the prop and see how fast it will go. But I’m still figuring the best it’ll do is 45. I’d like to see 50 or better. And since it’s a DV it’s gonna take some more power. I bought it to play with anyways so we’ll see what happens over the winter.
I already miss that sound. Going to be a long winter now that I have a boat again. |
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KENO
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Posted: October-13-2023 at 6:52am |
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You should probably get your wallet/charge card warmed up cause you'll be needing a lot of that green stuff to gain 5 MPH.
Your prop is working well if you're getting 40 MPH at 4000 RPM and they're both accurate readings. An Acme will probably pick you up some noticeable acceleration and have not much affect at all on top speed. It may be the same plus or minus a little bit. You won't pick up a magic 5 MPH People with these glowing reports of big speed gains were replacing a prop that should have been in the junk pile or was totally mismatched to the boat to begin with.
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63 Skier
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Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4232 |
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Posted: October-13-2023 at 9:47am |
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I agree with Ken's post. I saw firsthand how much a new prop changed my boat's performance, but it was more a matter of overall performance for skiing and holeshot etc. Depending on your current prop you may gain a few mph, may not. The old rule of thumb was you need around 12-14 HP gain to gain 1 mph. Obviously so many other variables, inboard vs. I/O vs. jet, size and hull type, many more. But it's a decent way to look at things when you want more speed. If you go from the 225-235 HP you have now to an engine with 300 HP, you might get a 5-7 mph gain on top end. That would put you into the mid-high 40's, probably not 50 on that hull. 45 in a SW 18 is pretty fast! I'm all in favor of your idea to repower with something spicier than you have now. Yes it's expensive, but we do stuff to our boats that make us smile.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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DenDen
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Posted: October-13-2023 at 2:10pm |
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It’s going to be a long winter waiting to see results.
I’m pretty sure I don’t want to go over 300hp. My 71C Tranmission won’t take it. Besides being almost 50 years old. I will keep everyone updated on my other post. Thanks again. |
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KENO wrote: