Never again, Again ! |
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Posted: September-03-2024 at 3:22pm |
I bought the 96 nautique open bow from Nautique Jeff that he has listed for sale.
The sale included everything minus the engine and transmission. Pics in a couple days, parts cleaned, carpet pulled off and out to the bow eye (saving for patterns) including the carpet on the underneath of the bow rider. Who puts carpet there? |
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2989 |
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Very few things in life are better than dealing with great people. Kudos to Jeff and Sandra. Well done.
W-O-T do you need an intervention?
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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One thing you should never do again is ship your old perfectly good carburetor to a guy in New Hampshire, saying you'll never need it again.
I kinda figure that guy would send it back to you if you want/need it
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Yes johnny, clearly there is a problem.
Keno, nope that carb is for whatever that guy wants to do with it. Anything else would be like an indian giver. Quick fuel keeps coming up, i don't know what causes the issues but i really want to install a squeeze pump like on an outboard. The 84 donor engine transmission with 770 hours was converted to electric ignition. my guess it's strong, but with how old gas ? How out of adjustment/clogged carb, how out of timing and in need of plugs wires cap and rotor, not charging and with an old battery on a charger hell, maybe a new conversion kit. It sounded good and revved up very fast, smooth, like a healthy engine, hopefully a freshen up, flex plate coat of corporate blue and there will be the happy. Only thing that looks cut is the wire on the ballast when it was converted. Firsr keno question is; are the front mounts or front pedestals different from 84 to 96 ? I measured, it looks good except - the stringers are farther apart on the 96 than the 84 BUT ; The engine mounts IN the cradle on the 96 and the engine mounts ON the cradle on the 84. Even tho the bolt holes line up on both cradles, the front mounts on the donor would have to slide in to fit leaving less side to side for alignment up front. I'll post a few pics of that tomorrow. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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Your question on the front mounts......the brackets that bolt to the engine are different heights because of the change in mounting angle.
Some people not named me have said they thought there was enough adjustment to make up for the height difference. One of them would have to tell you if they did it and it worked. PCM probably wanted the adjustment in about the mid range to leave plenty of room to go up or down PCM part numbers for the engine mounting bracket R090001 for the 1 to 1 transmission applications, R090144 for 1.23 applications Were you planning on the 84 engine and transmission going in the 96 or just the engine and finding a 1.23 transmission? Or maybe no real plan yet from the sounds of your other thread where you're selling stuff? Remember that the 96 engine is normal rotation and the 84 is reverse rotation.
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Yes, plan is 1984 pcm and borg warner.
Build another gantry pull engine trans hook up to 96 and lower engine trans into place to see whats what. Brackets ? Are you talking the cast part with trunion or the pedestal. Maybe i should go outside and take some pics so you can set me straight. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Edit in ; yes i see the height difference on the mounts thank you. Pedestal looks the same, problem is pedestal overhang/ overall width. Unless i glossed over and missed 2 different pedestals, nothing that cant be remedied. Unless cost for new is way over the rainbow.
Thanks keno Width bolt holes pedestal into cradle on 84 and 96; 21 1/2 inches Elevation bottom to pedestal mount surface (cradle); 84, 6 front, 5 1/2 rear 96, 5 front, 4 1/2 rear. Width of cradle; 84, 24 inches but engine is on top of cradle and pedestals hang over 5/8 each side. Width of cradle; 96, 30 inches but engine is inside cradle on angle who's width is 24 1/2 at best. Stringer width on 84 is 21 1/2 which is centerline the vertical mounting bolts (lags on the 84 into the stringers. It's close and most likely being overthought again again. |
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21187 |
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The engine mount width is essentially the same between the 2 stringer/cradle configurations, which was on purpose. (Ford) powertrains interchange without a problem. Rear mount height should be matched to the transmission being used but cradle will accomodate either set up.
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NautiqueJeff
Senior Member Joined: October-24-2003 Location: Lake Norman Status: Offline Points: 244 |
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Thanks for the kind words, wayoutthere! I am really glad that boat is going to get another life. I had to go to Orlando anyway to pick up a trailer that Ram-Lin refurbished for me, so pulling it down with me was no trouble. Keep us posted on the progress!!
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Current Boats: 1998 Ski Nautique, 1985 Sea Nautique 2700 (twin-engine), 1981 Fish Nautique (twin-engine), 1980 Fish Nautique (twin-engine)
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Out there drippin, 3 days now. I like this hull so i'm moving forward and starting to work up a plan.
start by cleanly cutting out the battery box / cooler assembly so it can be reused. probobly have to cut a rectangle hatch out of the floor under the observer seat and forward a bit, if needed for foam removal. (it's some kind of cored panel but i don't know how far forward it goes) and re use it. i layed out the floor under the gas tank and rear seat, those areas plus a few inches either side will stay intact. Everywhere else between the back seat and tank and from the tank to transom will come out for foam removal and access to the thru hull nut and bolts that always leak. those removed sections will not go back in. the floor from the back seat to the front floor cored/panel will come out for foam removal, i'm hoping it will give me enough room to de foam. this area is approx 22 inches by 58 inches so 1 sheet of airex core cell 3/4 will cover the rebuild. I would prefer to not cut it open but the boat is disassembled now. If anybody has been inside of a 96 nautique and can shed some light on an approach to cutting i'd appreciate the info. I can see the outboard stringer by looking down into the air box hopefully that will help with layout and cutting which will go slow so the composite stringers don't get wacked |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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Click on the link, page 4 shows a cutaway view and some description of the stringers and floor. It's from 93 but applies to 95 too It may or may not be any help.
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Thanks keno,
No doubt someone has been inside of these things. Links not working |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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It works for me, but here it is again. If that doesn't work, look for the 1993 brochure on PN or here on CCF
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Plans are evolving right now and theres not much of a rush. For example the 1984 nautique is staying put and the 96 is getting de-foamed. Yep 2 ski boats 2 rebuilds. Keep an out for a donor engine and trans boat. Today the 84 got powerwashed in the bilge and the cushions have been disassembled and inside the house all week, they are for sure dry and ready to get bagged up and stored in the boat with the boat covered. my powerwasher died and i picked up the tiny one from lowes, it's compact light and it made fast work de greasing the bilge. For 89 bucks and a 30 day return it's worth a try if you need one and don't have the room for or want to spend big bucks. Hope it lasts 8 years like the sunjo did |
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Well, looks like the 96 is headed to that big waterski lake in the sky. It's full of water front to back and from the bottom all the way up to the floor.
at first i figured defoam it but the stringers are full of water too and in some spots very soft. ( see videos ) the boat is structurally dependant on the foam the foams soaked and the stringers are only a few layers thick and flimsy. I almost caved in a few months ago and considered dropping 10 - 15 grand on a boat so i could hit the water now. Glad i didn't but i can offer some advice; If your looking for a ski boat go to the brochure section get the boats weight, call the trailer manufacturer get it's weight tell the seller i'll meet you at the scales and if it passes muster we'll go for a sea trial. second, if you want a surf boat, save yourself 300 grand and buy a used ski boat, i mean they may as well fill them up with water at the factory. called uhaul and cancelled the Ubox being dropped off at the upholstery shop tomorrow to have everything sent back to me. I'll have to call sandra in the morning and apologize, even with a new set of free skins she was sending me, along with the rest of the interoor parts it's just too much to gut and bring that boat back. the hull is great, the assembly as usual, stringers, foam and floor are what you'd expect, and heck i figured since roller boogie, disco and cocaine was a thing of the past and the guys at the factory aren't all hopped up on coke conga lining on roller slates around the shop floor hook shottin globs of over saturated chopped strand mat into the boat and callin it good were ever it landed ike they did on that 79 i had i figured assembly might be better this time but nope, not to be. .dam it, I really wanted a bowrider ski boat. https://youtu.be/n_nycYalEmA?si=FkyOBSyPjbv-fAcZ https://youtu.be/Xqc6T-9NSpo?si=zSTJFa6f44yhV9Cq https://youtu.be/cqDVL7bJCrA?si=XoHqSh9llqyiW44X |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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Alright Dano...................you need an intervention already or what?
This is your chance to make a boat exactly how you want it, Strip it down to the hull and go at it. Once upon a time you needed an intervention with the 79 project to help get that finished. I'd kick back for a day or 2, think about things and call this a Golden Opportunity staring you right in the face. You'll have that bowrider ski boat done your way.
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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I'll go as far as laying out the stringers so we all know where they are located in case someone wants to fix their boat.
Cutting out most of the floor will maybe help that frog get out of it's pond, poor thing all stuck in that moldy waterlogged mess. Boy do i have a once upon a time there was a boat builder story, name of the company was just till the check clears craft and there are stories from the plant floor entered into a ledger and those stories and that ledger have been handed down to new employees as time magically went by. Some day maybe i'll read a story or two here on the boards. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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Look at that, you're softening up a little already, next thing you know you'll be popping the top cap off to show how good or badly they installed that at the factory.
At that point, you're in trouble because you'll say "now I can do the stringers and floor better than they did" Good luck on the project and take your normal big bunch of pictures. PS......here's something you told a guy on one of those other websites A lot of projects never get finished or sold off or hit the dump, at times it might be overwhelming. this is a small boat, not a big material list to rebuild and easy all around job just takes some time but the end result is a huge payoff so stick with it.
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Faceplant
Senior Member Joined: July-27-2013 Location: Otter Lake , Mi Status: Offline Points: 418 |
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Was not aware that our boats are structurally dependent on the foam. I thought that the composite stringers was the skeleton for integrity and the foam was just for flotation. Also : if the floor is composite - what causes floor to flex like in the video ? Do your stingers flex as well ?
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Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6.
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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I'll eat my words and clear this up best i can.
The wide portion of the outbaord stringer are only a few layers thick and it flexes in the video. When i cut the rest of the floor out and remove the foam it should be easier to see that. The inner stringers are for sure going to be pretty strong. The front part of the floor is or looks like 1 inch core cell wirh some fiberglass on it. I'll add a picture. They drilled and filled the front floor, hence all the voids and gallons of standing water. The rear floor is foam filled sanded( nowhere near flat) and covered with fiberglass The foam is really for NVH but it is totally relied on structurally for the floor, not the whole boat. It's a safe bet the hull and deck are laid up real good and are strong on there own. The hull would probably work without stringers and floors but not that great. My bet and who cares would be theres a void by a bad foam pour in the stringers before assembly which allowed the flex or the water froze, expanded and popped the glass off the foam allowing flex and more room for more water. Again, i'll eat my words but not about assembly, it's where it all goes down hill. Which wraps this up; When i bought this boat it was without the upper sections of the interior parts and upholstery and I had somewhat of a plan as to the finish. It was luck of the draw i called jeff and he again advised me to call sandra about those pieces. Theres no way this boat could come back to original nick without a very large sum of money. Second, theres no way i could install the complete set of new skins sandra so generously offered me at the level they should be fitted. The fiberglass and roto molded bottom parts of the interior that were covered in carpet and came with the boat are rough to say the least, gel and sea dek would be an easier fix than carpet and upholstery which i suck at and would screw it all up. Is the whole thing a bust i don't know but it's disappointing to find it so full of water. Every screw and bolt hole into the stringers floor and transom must've ran like niagra falls. There is no story or reason to justify it being waterlooged period. It was sunk, nope the brochure brags about superior construction It was a hot tub, nope the brochure brags about superior design and construction methods that are above industry standards. It was abandoned and uncovered in a field for 20 years, nope these boats were made from ame 5000 resin WOW !!!! and the brochure goes on about the genious and legacy from which these boats have spawn. |
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2989 |
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Damn.
Double damn.
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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Here's a sentence from your PN update thread that didn't make it to CCF yet
"I have an update on both the 84 & 96 tonight, in short, no the 96 isn't scrap, it's just uuuggghh ! " The outlook seems to be improving
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Update on both boats today, start with the 84. Ups dropped off the steel i ordered to make new load/launch uprights because, well look at the pictures. Ups also dropped off all the paperwork for the 84 in a big correct craft envelope, good news.
Ups came around 1900 after i got done working on the 96 and i got good news for all of us about that. I found a note in a ziplock bag stuffed in void under the driver side floor. I'lll post a picture of it later along with pictures of the stringers and floor after some foam chipping. |
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Some foam chipping in between rain as hurricane somebody or other is approaching.
This is low on the list but i wanted to clear up on the stringers with some pictures. The wide part of the outboard stringer that flexes has a sawzall blade resting on it The narrow part of the outboard stringer is pretty tough. The inner to outer srringer tie-ins have some flex as well. The front floor will have to be cut out but for now you can see how it was constructed from 1 inch foam sheet cut in strips (why ? Who the F knows) the hole in the drivers floor with the sawzall blade sticking up was the hole drilled in the video. How water got there and the void was dry as far as i can see into it is any body's guess but 100 percent the foam under it will be soaked. Also there is a sawzall blade and an awl pointing at a gap in the floor that they filled with a tube of silicone, setting industry standards i'll tell ya. And how does foam not touch the bottom in the rear under the gas tank, frickin aqua fir down there. (I'll edit and number the pictures to align with the text) |
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Like mentioned earlier, i have good news for all of us. There was a note in a ziplock bag located in the void under the drivers side floor. I'll read it aloud and then you'll see how it's such good news. It reads;
This Boat Holds Special Reverance to all who assembled her, for as the story goes,,, Once Upon a Time, The old man walked onto the shop floor and called the men to gather. While placing a hand upon the deck of this creation of his, a tear ran from his eye and he spoke of his pride for his men & their work. Once the old man left the men to their duties they choked back emotions and continued assembly of this boat. Since the men were choked up, they could not Correctly finish their task. Be it known then that this is the only waterlogged hull and that therefore all the other boats are perfectly fine & not blown full of industry leading technology like a whole tube of silicone to fill a gap in the floor. Signed, The men who work for The Old Man Himself this day 3-28-96 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11133 |
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I checked with my cousin Vinny and his sidekick Mona Lisa Vito and it was Mona Lisa who said........That Dan guy ain't too smart, trying to blow that note by as something original from back then.
I asked her why and she said...."that's the same graph paper he likes to use to make diagrams of his electrical system" and it's his handwriting too" She's OK Exhibit A Now get back to work on that thing
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1782 |
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That is a great story told by pictures and script!! Seriously the photos are very interesting and do explain some things. I had a 96 ski many moons ago and it had lamination issues at a young age. Soft spots in a few areas and the boat always seemed heavy on the water. Speed was never an issue but the wake was huge compared to my brothers 97 (I know its a bit different build).
Cant wait to follow and see this project get fixed.....ya know ya wanna....
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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wayoutthere
Senior Member Joined: February-28-2020 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 489 |
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Fabricating and planting evidence is more of an fbi thing.
Far as(1992) marissa goes she could prep me for testimony over a long weekend at some casino in vegas in that dress with those shoes nails and big hair. |
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