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reinforcing floor board (updtated w/ pics)

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jackkloepfer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackkloepfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2010 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by bkhallpass bkhallpass wrote:

Pete, remember, this boat was a 96. There shouldn't be any wood in that floor panel. I don't think using ply is a good answer.

Jack, you need to grind a v down to the crack from each side. this gives you a clean surface for the repair to bind, and also allows you to build the area back up strongly. Once ground down, you can trickle some epoxy resin in the crack itself. However, as you build up the repair you need fiberglass cloth or mat in the resin. Resin by itself is strong, but brittle. The glass gives it strength. What Chris was saying is you start with a small strip, mayble and inch. Then A wider strip and so on until you have filled up the V and created a repair 3 or 4 inches wide.   The wider the repair, the stronger it will be be. If the cracks are small, you can probably just widen them with a dremel and fill with resin, then cover with mat. If the cracks are wide, and the fiberglass has delaminated near the cracks, you need to grind away the loose material.

There should be acore of some sort of composite in that panel. Worst case, you grind down to the core, and then build the fiberglas back up to level.

I believe what Pete is saying is that once you have fixed all of the cracks, he also recommends a layer of cloth across the whole repair, probably across the entire surface of the panel, for strength. He is recommending a layer of mat or cloth across top and bottom. To do this, you need to be sure all of the adhesive is off. This means either grinding the whole surface, or if you get lucky, getting it off with adhesive remover.

Just cutting a sheet of plywood, coating with CPES, and glassing over it would be quicker. But, in my opinion, it's not the right thing to do. One of the selling points of 93 and later boats is that they have no wood in the construction. I don't think it's in your best interest to put wood in there now.

I would guess it will take you a couple of hours to grind off the surface both sides, grind out the cracks to a V. Probably two or three layers of glass to fill up the Vs, and a layer of Mat or cloth on both sides. If you did just one layer a day, you'll be done in a week.

Free advice, take it for what it's worth.

BKH


Thanks, very well explained by all you guys.

If I'm going to be cutting narrow strips of glass, I would picture the strips fraying pretty easily around the edges. With that in mind, should I look for a more dense weave fiberglass??

can you guys recommend any specific types or brands of fiberglass and epoxy resin??

Thanks again. this is a tremendous resource.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2010 at 11:28pm
Jack,
Do to the size of the repair needed plus the convenience in finding supplies, I'd say go to a marine supply and look for West products.

Brian,When did all this "originality" come out of you? It must be contagious!! Jack, Brian does have a very valid point regarding keeping the wood away from your boat but, if you do find the glue hard to remove, you could get a sheet of one of the composites.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackkloepfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2010 at 11:41pm
the adhesive feels like it should come off pretty easily. plus, the board has a domed section for the v drive access, so I'm really leaning toward keeping it.

I'll keep you guys posted. Looking to clean it off and start grooving out the cracks tonight.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackkloepfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2010 at 1:19am
I'm grooving out the cracks with a dremel right now, going pretty well.

I was able to get pretty much all of the adhesive off of the top sheet. there appears to be tiny traces of it here and there, but it is pretty much clean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackkloepfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2010 at 1:20am
also, does anyone know of something that can serve as a plug for the hole left by the ski pylon???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackkloepfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2010 at 2:12am
So I'm grooving out the cracks right now, and it appears that the material with the cracks is a foam core.

I'm starting to fear that filling these cracks will not help the structural integrity all that much, as I'm basically just filling the cracks in the foam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2010 at 9:48am
Jack,
Check some of the online computer or woodworking supplies. They have plugs that are used for desk top wiring hole plugging. This picture is off McMaster's site but you'd end having to buy more than one.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2010 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by jackkloepfer jackkloepfer wrote:

So I'm grooving out the cracks right now, and it appears that the material with the cracks is a foam core.

I'm starting to fear that filling these cracks will not help the structural integrity all that much, as I'm basically just filling the cracks in the foam.


If it were me, I would drizzle as much epoxy in the crack as I could to fill the gaps. build up a nice strong patch of fiberglass, and put a layer of fiberlass all the way across the panel on each side for strength. I look at it this way. The sides of the hull are fiberglass only - no core. You'd have a very difficult time kicking a hole through the side of the boat.

My $.02.

BKH
Livin' the Dream

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackkloepfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2010 at 7:11pm
grr!

looks like I got caught sleeping.

I picked up some "fiberglass resin" that claimed to be for auto and marine application, and it is indeed polyester.

I'm guessing I should track down some epoxy, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2010 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by bkhallpass bkhallpass wrote:


If it were me, I would drizzle as much epoxy in the crack as I could to fill the gaps. build up a nice strong patch of fiberglass, and put a layer of fiberlass all the way across the panel on each side for strength. I look at it this way. The sides of the hull are fiberglass only - no core. You'd have a very difficult time kicking a hole through the side of the boat. BKH


The fiberglass on both sides of the repair is very important. The top is going to be under a compression load and the bottom tension just like a stressed skin panel. The glass is what really gives the composite the strength. The break in the existing has fractured the original glass. Just pouring epoxy into the break will "glue" it back together but it will not have the strength.

Yes, I'd take the poly resin back and look for the epoxy. Any marine supplies around like I mentioned?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2010 at 11:43am
is there a section that actually flexes as it is laying on a flat surface? like a big bubble so to say, if so then that whole section needs to come out and if it's down to the foam core.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackkloepfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-27-2010 at 1:15am
Ok, Ok. So this is long over due!

I decided to go a slightly different route with this one, and I figured I should share my results with you guys. I know it took me way to long to post this, but I was having some major computer issues.

These are the mid way pics. I decided to add inlaid aluminum trusses to add structural rigidity. aside from that, I continued to to bore out the cracks, and I filled them with a low density filler and epoxy.



I then "iced" over everything with epoxy and high density filler to cover it all up. Finally, I laid about 9 layers of fiberglass weave and epoxy without filler to build my height back up, and add rigidity to work with the aluminum trusses.

My thinking was to basically add a skeleton to this thing to prevent the same thing happening again. I kind of went out on a limb, here, but I think it paid off, as it is now rock solid! So much better.

Thanks everyone for your help, and I'll post more pics of the glassing soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackkloepfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2013 at 1:44pm
just an update on this one...as this is one of the very rare times that I have actually CONTRIBUTED something to these boards as opposed to my usual siphoning of your guys's superior knowledge:

this repair went great. it's been 2 seasons since. it is uber solid, and ended up curing very evenly. I like having the aluminum truss' in there...gives me extra piece of mind. I don't think that I'm going to have any problems with this!
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