Boats For Sale:
excel/barefoot engine rebuild rotation |
Post Reply 
|
Page <12 |
| Author | ||
Hollywood 
Moderator Group 
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: March-18-2016 at 12:13pm |
|
|
Where is Karras??? I'm no v-drive expert but I'm not following Riley.
v-drive boats still have transmissions The 89-94 PCM BBCs remained RH. Yes, the 454 HOs were LH but those only appeared in the mid 80s. The small block Ford powered Excels were LH with reduction/reversing transmissions and RH props. (this is contrary to what Riley is saying?). If he's right the LH fords had NON-reversing transmissions and let the v-drive unit do that. This is where I don't believe Riley is correct. I'm not sure the PCM reduction/reversing trans was able to fit in the Excel OR that PCM wasn't buildind LH big blocks, but probably the latter. |
||
 |
||
|
Riley
Grand Poobah 
Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 12:16pm |
|
|
Were the 454 HO boats LH props or did they have a reduction transmission?
|
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 12:22pm |
|
|
RH engine and RH prop I do know that. I thought the {RH} big blocks just had 1:1 velvet drives and then reduction in the V on the order of 1.2-1.5.
Seems like the [LH] Fords then would have the regular old reduction/reversing trans as the DDs and then a different v-drive, possibly not reducing. |
||
|
||
|
Riley
Grand Poobah
Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 12:47pm |
|
|
I'm only aware of BFN's running 1:1 transmissions with RH rotation engines and props. You must be talking about the newer VDrive BFNs? I never knew the HO engines were LH, but if they were in a DD, they must have had a reduction transmission?
|
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 12:54pm |
|
|
Bruce you are all over the map.
Uh yes, this whole thread is about the v-drive BFN (Excel) isn't it?
No. 454 HO = LH 425hp, available in early-mid 80's 2001 Ski Nautiques. 1:1 velvet drive, LH prop. GottaSki has some first hand experience with them. |
||
|
||
|
Riley
Grand Poobah
Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:17pm |
|
|
Gotcha. You said mid 80's HOs were LH so I was thinking there were some LH BFNs out there that came from CC that way and I had never heard of that. I'll get back to work...
|
||
|
||
|
Air206
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:18pm |
|
|
Karras was travelin' - enjoying the Midwest.......
but you don't need the Excel boys on this post. Hollywood's got it covered. I thought I saw Rod sent a PM (he's torn into these 454 Excels and prolly will help him with parts too). The Excel 454s are counter rotation firing with standard rotation camshafts (don't ask me how I know - BTW, thanks to Performance Distributors for incredible return service! ) 
|
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:18pm |
|
|
I haven't seen or heard of any 454 HOs after 1986.
|
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:21pm |
|
|
Pretty sure all the 330hp 454s were gear-to-gear crank-cam instead of the typical chain drive setup. So, a RH crank turns an LH cam with an RH firing order. Pretty unique...
|
||
|
||
|
TRBenj
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:26pm |
|
|
I have a RH 351w out of a '91 Excel so some of the above info is incorrect. Not sure if there was a change along the excels run where LH small blocks were used to turn RH props (like the super sport that followed).
I can think of a few reasons why you wouldn't want a reduction trans in front of a v-drive, space and strength being big ones- you'd have to build a stronger v-drive box of it had a torque multiplier in front of it. Probably why all ski boat v-drives have 1:1 trans and put all the reduction in the v-drive box. |
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:29pm |
|
|
Ah Tim, that's just like standards . RH engine 1:1 PCM and RH prop. Nothing new there, simply there's also a v-drive along for the ride.
Seems like the 454 [DD BFNs + Excels] get velvet drives throughout their run. I haven't seen any documentation otherwise. 240 hp Excel has to be quite the dog! |
||
|
||
|
dave12gauge
Newbie 
Joined: April-06-2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:33pm |
|
|
I thought I (the shop for $500, I'm planning on resealing it anyways and he is going to check the clutches) could rebuild the Velvet drive model 10-18-002 ratio 1:1 also know as the 72c, so that full power would match a rebuilt standard rotation engine?
Does anybody know how much rotation torque of a Chevy 454 BBC would cause to the hull? If its major than I will build the engine like it came from the factory (reverse rotation). But if you guys say maybe 3% "worse" than maybe I would build the engine standard rotation. I will continue to run the stock rotation prop which is a RH prop. My distributor would remain because BBC turn the cam in the same direction in a standard or reverse engine. Alternator, circulation pump, and water pump don't care which way they turn. So I think its only the starter that would need to get rebuilt. My head is spinning, not sure which way though, standard, reverse, automotive RH, automotive LH, marine backwards, I know upside-down. When I'm pulling the motor today, I hope I still remember "lefty loosy, righty tighty". |
||
|
||
|
TRBenj
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:33pm |
|
As far as I've been able to tell, this set up was common to all rev rotation chevies with flat tappet cams from the early 70's thru mid 90's. Possibly more. Not unique to big blocks or Pcm's. I would be careful with terminology as well... Calling them a "LH cam" is a bit misleading as the snout and FO are unique to a RH engine. It's still a reverse rotation cam in that it's made for reverse rotation engines. "Standard rotation reverse fire" is the correct term. LH used the standard chain timing sets. Reason for the HO's being LH only was the lack of availability on RH roller cams. Sorry for the detour. |
||
|
||
|
Air206
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:35pm |
|
It is - drives and accelerates like a dump truck...... the 351HO is where it's at for Excels. Best weight / power ratios. ......but when I dream at night, it's of 6 Liters in Excels.... 
|
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 1:42pm |
|
Tim's comment on "full power reverse" was technically correct but didn't quite answer your question earlier. You just have to index the pump for which direction is forward. So yes, a velvet drive can be setup for LH or RH easily. To Tim's point, don't go WOT in reverse. You'll burn up the trans.
With your transmission and v-drive you cannot rebuild your engine to LH and use a RH prop. |
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-18-2016 at 2:15pm |
|
|
So there are RH 351 HOs. Randy has one (I removed his name from my post above) as well as TX Foilhead. Safe to say all Excels got RH engines and 1:1 velvet drives.
|
||
|
||
|
dave12gauge
Newbie
Joined: April-06-2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-19-2016 at 3:09am |
|
|
[/quote]
With your transmission and v-drive you cannot rebuild your engine to LH and use a RH prop. [/QUOTE] Duh, now I get it. Will build engine correctly. Just to be clear, the cam is/is not an off the shelf part? Its a normal rotation- reverse firing order? |
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-21-2016 at 11:43am |
|
|
Correct. For what you're doing, save some money and reuse the stock cam.
|
||
|
||
|
Hollywood
Moderator Group
Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-21-2016 at 11:50am |
|
|
||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <12 |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
Riley wrote: