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Battery Recommendation Needed

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GottaSki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2016 at 12:21pm
even better!
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2016 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

Originally posted by OptimaJim OptimaJim wrote:

There's a lot of false information posted here, so I'll do my best to address what I can. In terms of deep-cycle batteries, the types of deep-cycle batteries used on trolling motors by most anglers won't be harmed in any way by a starter or vice-versa.


Welcome Jim, good to have you here.

I respect that this is your livelihood and don't doubt your overall proficincy, However on this single point I must vehemently disagree because of witnessing repetitive evidence to the contrary over decades.

My observation is DeepC batteries eat v8 starting sytems, especially conventional ones without gear reduction starters. Maybe year 1 will get by, but eventually will cause problems with labored cranking, low voltage under draw, high amps due to slow armature rpm, low I timesV power, overheated cabling, slow crank speeds, and chattering or welded solenoids.


Tom,
It's my observation on the deep cycles as well. Unless Opitma has some design beyond the normal industry standard, deeps just can't handle the high amp draws. You can only do so much with the physics of lead and acid.

There is one other scenario. It's common for a companies marketing department to do some brainwashing on their pitch men!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2016 at 7:41pm
On my 78 Nautique I was using the largest lead acid battery I could squeeze into the box and they kept going out. I was at an Automotive Trade show and discussed this with the Exide Rep, they made batteries. He said my problem was very common. The larger batteries squeeze larger plates into the case and they end up close together. In my old flat bottom 78 Nautique the pounding ( I was young then ) would cause the plates to move and since they were close together they would start shorting out.
I went to two small batteries, I don't remember the group size but two fit into the stock 78 Nautique battery box mounted sideways.. Each was rated between 400 and 500 AMPs and those batteries were still in the boat when I sold it. 6 or seven years later.
The cost of the two was less than the cost of one large 800 Amp back then
I wired them in tandem and it worked out very well.   It would be easy to wire in an isolator so you could save one for starting power, some isolators now have a cut off switch that kicks in to save enough starting power.
The large Amp boosters run in the big stereo's draw a huge amount of amps.
Then amp in my Yukon Denali with a Bose system would drain my 800 amp battery in about 2 hours of music use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2016 at 8:43pm
Mark,
I've reported the same problem on the site several times. Years ago I too made the mistake of thinking a bigger battery is better. I went through a couple of the big Exides before I found out how the insides were made.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote OptimaJim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-12-2016 at 12:58pm
Hi GottaSki, I appreciate your feedback regarding deep-cycle batteries. I probably should've defined deep-cycle batteries better- Group size 31 and smaller, lead-acid batteries either in flooded or AGM form, which is what can be found in nearly every powerboat on the water under 25 feet. That doesn't mean someone might not use a gel battery or massive 8Ds like shierh, but they are outliers and certainly nowhere near the rule. Hollywood citing specifications for his '88 SN of 380CCA & 115AH speaks to that point. Most folks here won't even go to a Group 27 or 31 battery size and will probably stick with the smaller Group 65 range (I wish group sizes made sense as they relate to the actual size of the battery).

Batteries like our YellowTops and BlueTops (with light-gray cases) are considered dual-purpose batteries, offering the capability to serve as either a starting battery or a deep-cycle house battery. Even our little YellowTop battery for the Prius offers 450CCA in a 26-lb container, although it falls well short in terms of the reserve capacity requirements Hollywood listed. That Group 51-sized battery is a popular choice amongst drag racers, who need just enough cranking amps to get their engine started. The top fuel hydro we sponsor uses three of them in it's 36-volt system to start an engine that needs way more cranking amps than anything someone could ever cram underneath a Nautique's engine cover.

When we see labored cranking or slow cranking speed in marine applications (or street applications) on a battery that is relatively-new, the reason is almost always low voltage due to lack of maintenance. It's no secret that for Optima and many other brands and manufacturers who offer “marine” batteries, the only difference between those batteries and their automotive counterparts is typically a set of threaded terminals and a shorter warranty period. The shorter warranty is the result of a known history of improper battery maintenance.

While the ideal scenario for storage (including in-season) is to have a battery connected to a quality battery maintenance device, the best most folks will manage is to disconnect the battery when a boat goes into storage and many won't even do that. Whenever any battery (again, talking about lead-acid here) is discharged below 12.4 volts and is left sitting in that state, sulfation will begin to form in the plates, which diminishes both capacity and lifespan. That's why some brands and manufacturers have exclusionary language in their warranties relating to low voltage conditions and improper maintenance.

I was really surprised when Edwin Evers, one of our sponsored tournament anglers, offered to share some of what I considered were his trade secrets regarding battery maintenance. While his advice is more specific to tournament anglers who are fishing tournaments, it does make sense for skiers as well. If a battery is going to fail because of a manufacturing defect, regardless of brand, it will probably happen within the first month of use, if not the first week. Beyond that time frame, battery lifespan is largely connected to how a battery is used and maintained.

Steve, you are correct that I would consider myself a skier, although just because I have barefooted before, I don't really consider myself one. I did own a '97 Sport Nautique and I've been in a bit of a drought for a while, although I almost pulled the trigger on a SN out in Nevada last summer and I'm still open to the right boat in the right location at the right price if my family's schedule aligns.

MrMcD, I can't comment on how other products are assembled other than to say that some flat-plate manufacturers still insert plates into cases by hand. Our cells are mechanically-inserted under pressure and with very precise tolerances. There is also a difference between “wet” products where plates are suspended in an electrolyte solution and “dry” products, where the glass matting in between plates holds the electrolyte.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
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MrMcD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2016 at 10:08pm
Pete, I think when you spend your money and learn the hard way we tend to stick with what works.
I have heard a large number of people love the newer dry cel technology and I know of an equal number that have had issues with them.
I know many car collectors.
My wet battery gives me at least 4 years at about half the price so I have not stepped up to the new technology.   I will admit though that my wife's BMW has to have a AGM or it does not work. Yeah, I tried wet cel. You can do it in the BMW if you have the computer reprogrammed to charge a wet cel. If you don't reprogram the AGM program will burn up a wet cel in about 2 mos. Costs about $200 to reprogram so not worth it.
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2016 at 10:37pm
I finally replaced the cheapy battery that came with my boat 8 years ago.    It still worked, but I thought it might go without warning.    Bought a Blaines 7 year warranty group 65, hopefully is my last one.

I think OptJim is right, proper charging maintenance is the key.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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