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Unexplained Episodes of Stalling

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Hollywood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 12:53am
What is the primary resistance of that coil?? If its getting blazing hot you should probably keep the ballast resistor.
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1989sn2001_985 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989sn2001_985 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2016 at 8:18am
It's a low resistance coil, I believe 1.5. I will measure for sure this weekend. Also appreciate the advice of putting ballast resistor back in place, and running ignition module directly to 12 volt source. I may be over thinking it...or have a really dainty hands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2016 at 10:51am
Originally posted by 1989sn2001_985 1989sn2001_985 wrote:

original prestolite ignition module

I bypassed the ballast resistor as indicated in the Prestolite instructions. But that thing gets hot! Is that normal? The instructions seem to indicate that a lower resistance coils with a bypassed resistor is what is needed. Thoughts?


No, a burning hot coil is NOT normal!

So the instructions say bypass the resistor but if the coil gets not don't bypass the resistor? Rhetorical question, the Prestolite instructions (or lack there of) suck. The Prestolite has 2 wires. One tach one RESISTED voltage. The Mallory has 3 wires. One ground, one full 12V and one RESISTED voltage.

Why are you risking burning up yet another module by wiring it the same way as before?

Originally posted by 1989sn2001_985 1989sn2001_985 wrote:

It's a low resistance coil, I believe 1.5.

Well then use the ballast. That is the same as the factory Prestolite coils that all used ballast resistors.

Originally posted by 1989sn2001_985 1989sn2001_985 wrote:

putting ballast resistor back in place, and running ignition module directly to 12 volt source.

This makes as much sense as eating ice cream on a diet.
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1989sn2001_985 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989sn2001_985 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2016 at 11:11am
Got it. Put resistor back in line leave all other connections as they are. Sorry, was not aware the prestolite instructions were that off base and misunderstood previous post on wiring. Hopefully no permanent damage done...only ran new ign module 1.6 hours without ballast. Will correct before next run. Thanks for the help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2016 at 5:38pm
MSD coils are .7 ohm. Pertronix Flame-Thrower II coil is .6 ohm. I'd really call these low resistance coils.

The #1223 coil from skidim [COIL IGNITION (FORD/GM) STANDARD IGN.
Point Type Ignitions (Used with external resistance)] is advertised as 1.5 ohm. This is basically a stock replacement for the original Prestolite coils used with points & ballast resistors.

Skip to the #1230 PCM PowerPlus coil [COIL ELECTRONIC IGNITION c/o Prestolite, Mallory or Pertronix Breakerless Electronic Ignition System] does not have an advertised resistance. I have one however and measured 1.5 ohm. So, there is no difference between this one and the first one, besides being $10 cheaper.

The whole business with bypassing a resistor for conversions is to get 1.5 ohm resistance (relied on solely from the STOCK coil) for the Prestolite (purple wire) EI conversion module. Sorta the same thing for the Mallory conversion, except it wants both full 12V (red wire) AND 1.5 ohm resisted supply (black/green wire).

Stock points setup gets .8 ohm resistor + 1.5 ohm coil.

Situation 1: Burnt ignition module
If bypass your ballast resistor and you use a low resistance coil (MSD or Pertronix) with a Prestolite or Mallory conversion you'll burn up the module. (SNobsessed is currently proving me wrong on this however). Failed modules make for sporatic running before complete failure.

Situation 2: Hot coil
Stock Prestolite, #1230 from skidim or PCM PowerPlus coils will burn up if you bypass the resistor. The points can take the lessened resistance (a total of 1.5ohm) but the coils cannot take the full 12V. Result is poor running warm/hot engine, runs fine cold.

Situation 3: Upgraded coil with points (hasn't seemed to be an issue here)
MSD and Pertronix coils can take 12V, unresisted. However, when running points and a low resistance coil MSD recommends adding in a .8 ohm ballast resistor, netting a 1.5 ohm total resistance. A low resistance coil only will probably burn up your points pretty fast.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2016 at 6:33pm
Well explained!

So, taken one step further in explanation, why do these low-resistance coils exist?

In an MSD system, the coil is whacked multiple times with a 400- 500V primary spike, but its capacitive discharge design and the duty cycle on the coil is extremely short.

In a points or igniter system, the coil is sinking current for a relatively long period to GND keeping the magnetic field energized, and when grounded by the points or igniter, the mag field collapses and the secondary produces a single high voltage spike due to the abrupt delta-Gause.
The dwell is basically the duty cycle of the coil conducting this current and holding the field live. Hence the extra heat that develops when the total system resistance is too low.
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989sn2001_985 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2016 at 9:24pm
Hollywood, greatly appreciate the time in explaining the situation and scenarios.   I do indeed have the PCM coil (number 1230 from SKIDIM) and the Prestolite Conversion (with recently replaced ign. module) so will proceed with the recommendation of getting that ballast resistor back in place before the next run.

GottaSki, right on. My novice mind would have expected the opposite of "extra heat that develops when the total system resistance is too low" but there you have it...makes sense.

Thanks again to you both for your direction through this, I appreciate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader144 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:17am
Here is what I did to remedy my issue:
1. Add new dash to engine ground
2. Replace coil with a new one
3. Replace alternator (possible voltage regulator issue even though it charges)
4. Clean every possible electrical connection on the engine with a dremel tool, and I mean every one
5. Replace ignition and other key switch/breakers with new ones - and add new wire connectors
6. Replace deep cycle battery with standard car battery
7. Clean the big engine breaker connections on the back and the transmission neutral switch connections

6 hours later back on the lake better than ever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:10pm
wow, talk about a parts changer!
Originally posted by Trader144 Trader144 wrote:

2. Replace coil with a new one

Again, this won't fix the issue if you're using the wrong coil from the get go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989sn2001_985 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2016 at 4:51pm
Alright guys, so I put the ballast resistor back in place this past weekend. Ran it for about 10 hours over the course of 6 days and all good...no issues. So final items replaces include: new prestolite ignition module, new pcm ignition coil, new ballast resistor, new distributor and new rotary. I agree with you all that coil and module were main items at fault. Hopefully will keep running like a champ.

I greatly appreciate the feedback and help, I could not have done it without you all and I learned a lot. Thanks again and if you see me post to this thread again, it bad news ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2016 at 4:55pm
Yay.
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