Way to go GM !!

eric lavine wrote: All i ask is give it a fair shake when you go test drive, dont automatically assume something is better besides the BS propaganda out there. look at it this way, are yo really helping out America by purchasing a rice wagon....*************** i forgot you 30 somethings believe that BS they are made right here

Eric, I have to ask- what the heck are you going to learn about a vehicle's reliability when you test drive it? Sure, you can judge how well it performs, and get a good feel for the quality of materials used on the interior, etc. A Volkswagen would come across great on a test drive- nice German handling, top notch interior materials and fit/finish... but their dismal reliability record over the last 15 years is pretty well documented.

The performance and fit and finish (initial quality) of the Fords and Chevies Ive driven the last few years have certainly come a long ways compared to the cars they were producing 10 years ago... but that still doesnt mean they'll hold up.

Buying anything blindly based on perception is a bad idea. I wouldnt buy an import just because "Japanese cars are higher quality" and I wouldnt buy a domestic solely because "people should buy American". Again, I would encourage anyone to research an individual model and make an informed decision on what best suits their needs.

As far as propaganda goes, surely you recognize that "buy American" mantra youre spouting is equally as misleading as the "Japanese cars are more reliable" one. Still no comment on that German flag either, I see.

As far as being disillusioned about "imports being built here", it seems as though youre even more confused about American cars, as many are built outside our borders, using parts that werent made here either... many times having less domestic content than their "import" counterparts. Or maybe youre more concerned about the corporate big wigs in Detroit getting their cut than the lineworkers in South Carolina?

CQ, glad you've had good luck with your trucks. Id argue that 100k miles over 12 years is pretty light duty though... I average closer to 25k/yr (my '07 has 115k on it). Ive never owned an American car or truck... over the last 13 years, Ive only owned 2 vehicles- and I dont expect to buy another for a while, either. The ones I buy last too long to trade very often.

Ive worked on several of my friends American vehicles though. They certainly required a lot more work to keep them running properly- and I was never very impressed with the way they were built from a maintenance perspective either. Of course, my experience alone has too few data points to base any broad sweeping generalizations on. Though, that experience combined with widely available industry data is enough to say that, in general, Japanese cars were built better than their American counterparts over the last 20 years or so.

Is that enough for me to blindly buy an import, without doing any research on the specific brand and model?   Heck no. There are bad cars built by all manufacturers, regardless of country of origin- even Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Subaru and Nissan.

I think that buying any car car based on perception alone is a foolish move. That includes buying American simply because its patriotic!

I would submit full size cars and full size trucks on the American side are a serious value and have been for 15 years.    The Japanese equivalents simply do not have the economies of scale to match up.   Additionally these platforms are sold to relatively informed buyers… fleet sales. The fleet buyers put 50 plus thousand miles a year on these vehicles and have multiple vehicles, they know when there is a quality/maintenance item that is costing them money and they vote with their checkbooks quickly. (Hell that diesel issue in the fords has Reid Pinkham buying chevy trucks for the business at this point.. but don’t tell him I let that out). This gets a lot of feedback to the engineering/quality groups to respond with a timely solution. Other than the front bearing/abs issue chevy had in the late 90’s- early 00’s and the issue ford had with the last generation diesel both of those full size platforms have been incredibly reliable and robust since the introduction of obd-ii compliant platforms in 96.

For the same reasons (volume and fleet (taxi/law enforcement) owner feedback) full size american sedans also tend to exhibit exceptional quality, ease of repair, and value.

If you can’t run a full size ford or chevy based vehicle well into the 200k+ mile range you just aren’t trying. Additionally they are quick and inexpensive to service due to heavily competitive aftermarket support. My 99 tahoe is running strong at 220000 miles (it did cost me 98 dollars and almost an hour a few weeks ago to replace the front rotors and pads but that was from letting them sit for 9 months) and my 98 expedition just turned 180k while pulling back peters boat last weekend. They both have had one problem since I have owned them (which I tend to keep them for about 4 years ) in both cases I seized an idler pulley and lost my belt.   With the tahoe I was pulling the orange crush back from Adirondack marine.. I pulled into an auto parts store on a Sunday afternoon bought a 5 dollar ratchet set an 12 dollar pulley assembly and a belt and was on my way in 20 mins. The expedition broke after the autoparts store was closed so I ended up paying 108 dollars including labor for a new pulley and belt .   Actually the cruise control on the tahoe has been on the blink lately … in need to check that out.

These trucks will run longer than it takes the bodies to rust out up here, in fact most cars will. I say buy what has the most volume and you get the best value.

Now if you are talking small truck platforms – the Japanese actually have some experience there. What we would consider a small –midsize truck is the workhorse platform in Japan. There are no full size trucks in Japan outside of the odd escalade in a big city. Even their 2500 kg platform commercial trucks are narrower than a full size half ton here. The small trucks in the us have struggled to find a reason for existence, and the Toyota has been a great platform. The nissans weren’t bad but were such rust buckets through the mid 90’s that they lost serious share.

My last 2 door 95 tahoe got bought by my shop neighbor to use as a plow truck. It had 200k, he was very excited to get it as his current 2 door 93 tahoe that he used to plow tight driveways that needed the shorter turning radius was at 500k and the interior was really getting shot.   He already has his eyes on my 99 tahoe with the 220,000 miles as his next one..

no wife is better than a younger wife

toyota NA plants facts

4 runner is built in japan only.

Joe, I'm glad you brought up the issue w/ the Ford Diesels. We have a F550 at work that is on its 3rd motor in less than 80,000 miles. Turbo went the first time, 2nd time was something in the bottom end, and I don't know what happened the last time. It just got back and threw a code its first week back. We're about to cut ties, dump it and buy something else. Hopefully a chevy with the Dmax/Allison combo.

Wait, so you're saying we build our own models of the ones you listed above, but some 4Runners sold here come from Japan?

Hollywood wrote: Wait, so you're saying we build our own models of the ones you listed above, but some 4Runners sold here come from Japan?

no, no...i'm saying that not all toyota's are built in the U.S....

I didnt say the *only* reason they performed well was because of light duty use- but the low mileage is hardly a testament to long term reliability either!

Never owned an American vehicle, but Ive driven quite a few- and fixed more than a couple as well! I think you misunderstood me though- I said that those were insignificant data points as far as reliability goes. Same goes for the 2 imports Ive had. Gotta do your research on each particular model! Just because your grand pappy had a good Oldsmobile once, or your great Aunt Sue had a bad Datsun years back doesnt amount to a hill of beans on the foriegn vs. domestic quality debate.

I dont have time to look it up right now, but I bet I can come up with a few "import" vehicles that are built in the US and have higher domestic content than some of their "American" counterparts. In a situation like that, which car does a better job of supporting the local economy?

Yep, my 4Runner was designed and built in Japan. Found that out after I determined it was a quality vehicle. You can chalk it up to coincidence if it makes you feel better! I have 2 buddies with Tacomas who have had great luck with them (theyre built in the US). Like I said, I could care less where its built or where the company who builds it keeps their headquarters- so long as its reliable and meets my needs. All else being equal, Ill support my local economy, or act patriotically, whatever you want to call it... but up to that point, Im looking out for myself first!

Japan Cars Top Consumer Reports 2011 Rankings
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Japanese brands continue to dominate Consumer Reports 2011 reliability survey and Ford Motor Co. sank in the ratings, thanks to three new models that had problems.

The most reliable cars during the first year came from Scion, Lexus, Acura, Mazda, Honda, and Toyota, the non-profit group said in a statement today. Of the 91 Japanese models Consumer Reports ranked, 87 were rated average or better in predicted reliability; 24 Japanese models earned the highest rating.

Ford’s fall from the 10th to the 20th spot this year stemmed from its new Ford Explorer, Fiesta and Focus, of which had below-average reliability in their first year. That was the biggest slip for any carmaker this year.

“Ford’s drop can also be attributed to problems with new technologies: the new MyFord Touch infotainment system and the new automated-manual transmission used in the Fiesta and Focus. On the bright side, the Ford Fusion Hybrid sedan remained outstanding, and other Fusion versions were above average,” CR said in a statement.

Chrysler, which has suffered in the ratings for several years, rose with Jeep up seven spots to 13, to make it the most reliable domestic brand. Chrysler and Dodge moved up 12 and three spots.

The ranking is based on responses on 1.3 million vehicles owned or leased by subscribers to Consumer Reports or ConsumerReports.org.

“Even with Chrysler’s improvement, Detroit models still have reliability problems. Of the 97 domestic models and versions for which Consumer Reports has sufficient data, 62 (64 percent) rated average or better in CR’s new-car reliability ratings, leaving 35 as below average,” CR said.

i dont really see alot of broken down cars on the side of the road, but i do see alot of people at the local food bank standing in line.

my comment on re-sale was more geared towards propaganda. if your a smart shopper and put alot of cash down, you will eliminate thosands in finance charges, so re-sale doesnt come into play, if you spend 30k on a car, chances are you will be paying out of pocket closer to 40k.
personally, i came to a point in life to trim the fat, I now have 2 cars but wont reveal the maker, paid cash for both only to weather the storm because transportaion is a big expense during the Bush meltdown. the one my wife drives gobbles cash because of the cost of parts, but its still cheaper than making car payments right now.

mi
you act like the nips invented a new mode of transportataion, they set up in the old dealerships where they use to sell the red white and blues,
cheese and fcn rice, your grandaddy would roll in his grave if he knew how you thought. you dont even have close to an argument with the set up in my cornfield and made in my back yard. Chryslers were made in my back yard, chevy's in my front yard, and smoke use to blow out the stacks out a LTV steel supplying and employing 13,000
your from the detroit area, go spew your thoughts in the GM parking lot down there in Detroit...you'll get a quick lesson on loyalty

next thing you'll be telling me is the fork isnt for eating, the chopsticks are

eric lavine wrote: do they make you exercise first thing in the morning?

no...you need a better source for how japanese auto companies operate in the US other than Gung Ho...