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switching to synthetic motor oil?

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    Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:02pm
Is it ok to switch to synthetic motor oil in our V-8's? I run it in my diesel truck with good results. I am willing to spend a little extra money on the boat and wondering if this is a good thing to do.

Any experiences?
1993 SkiNautique ProTec
2009 Boatmate trailer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:12pm
Todd, I'd save the extra cash for Perfect Pass!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:28pm
On the newer motors PCM does not recommend it.
My Excalibur runs what is basically Diesel Oil 15w-40.

Check out the PCM site here - PCM Website
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:32pm
Todd, Id save the extra money for PP as well.

There has been some discussion here and elsewhere that many modern oils meeting the newest standards (especially synthetics) are lacking in additives important for old tech flat-tappet cam motors. Our 351's fall into this category. Take a look at this article: Hot Rod

Im certainly not one to cheap out when it comes to the boat, but I choose to run conventional Shell Rotella-T 15w40 and quality Wix (NAPA) filters rather than synthetic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:34pm
Not to mention you already have over 1000 hours on that engine running the dyno. Leave it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:56pm
Here's another use for that money: Sign up for the reunion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by M3Fan M3Fan wrote:

Here's another use for that money: Sign up for the reunion.


You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by M3Fan M3Fan wrote:

Here's another use for that money: Sign up for the reunion.


Yeah


And me a cold one !!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 88skisupreme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 4:47pm
I've heard that its ok for new motors but that it can be a harsh transition for a motor with several miles/hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 5:05pm
If you have clean bilge now you won't if you change to syn oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2_Nautiques Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:14pm
Help me out here, I switched to synthetic oil when I had about 300 HRS on the 88. I did this because I was running around 100 Hrs a season and just wanted to skip a mid season oil change. Have 1334 Hrs now and still running synthetic, should I switch back to Dyno oil ???? Mostly I was using Amsoil Marine oil 15W-40 and is rated for light or heavy duty diesel marine applications???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:18pm
Matt you fine your motor was fairly new when you did it and Amsoil and royal purple are a lot better than moble 1 and the other junk syn oils.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:32pm
used royal purple only in all my diesels great stuff. Run it in my commercial mower also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 05 210 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:52pm
    I like Redline synthetic in everything EXCEPT the boat.Dealer did not recommend it.The problem I see with extended oil change intervals is that the synthetic base may not break down,but it does not stay clean and contaminate free.I would still change it at the regular intervals.

    Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:54pm
I wouldn't switch over to synthetic on an older boat because it may cause leaking or other problems, but it may be worth considering on a newer one. I switched to Amsoil on an '03 with 250 hours. It's got about 350 now. I run it in my trucks and go 10-12k between changes. I'm not convinced on the benefit for a boat yet though, as I still change the oil at 50 hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2_Nautiques Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 9:54am
Thanks, feel better now. I don't put on the hrs like I use to but had good luck so far with the Amsoil. I think I will stick with what I have been doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 12:15pm
I use Mobil 1 in EVERYTHING I own since about '85. I use it in my pressure washer and lawn mower even. I ran four vehicles over 200K miles and never had a mechanical problem of any kind or used oil. My boat started running M1 at the 450HR mark (when I bought it). Now has 1200 and when I changed the heads and intake, the lifter valley looked brand new (that was at 800HR's). I change the oil filter every 2K miles on my vehicles and then top off the amount the filter holds, then do a complete oil change at the 8K miles mark (per most new engine warranty requirements). The boat I change the filter every 10-15 hours and then a complete change at the end of the season. I've never had a leak, or started using any oil because of a switch to synthetic. As far as I'm concerned, you could never pay me enough to use dyno oil again. If you live in a place where you have a vehicle exposed to extreme cold (North) or extreme hot (South or under a boats engine cover) you cannot go wrong with synthetic. If you're worried about cost, changing the filter the way I do becomes a break even proposition over dyno if you keep a vehicle for 50K miles. That's assuming that you do a complete dyno oil change every 2K and the synthetic oil filter every 2K with a complete change at 8K. I figured it out once apon a time. As far as newer vehicles not running synthetic, I can't imagine that any engine would not run with less friction and be better protected over dyno. Engine manfacturers don't recommend synthetic because people who aren't in-the-know try to run synthetic way longer than normal WITHOUT changing the filter. There isn't an engine warranty in existance that will not cover a failure because you used synthetic oil. They won't cover it if there is evidence that the oil was not changed when it should be (dyno or synthetic). Sorry for length but I could go on for hours about this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 1:34pm
Ive heard of plenty of people who run Mobil 1 and other synthetics and have experienced long engine life. In my car I run 5k mile oil/filter change intervals with Castrol GTX conventional oil and a quality filter (Wix, Purolator, etc). Im at 250k miles and going strong. The boat has seen nothing but conventional oil as well. It seems to have been well maintained all its life- when I tore it down at 1170+ hrs the lifter valley looked brand new.

On most newer motors, I believe you can safely extend the OCI a bit by using synthetic. However, using any quality oil (dyno or synthetic) combined with a good filter and an appropriate change interval should result in long engine life. Since the change intervals are so short on our boats (50 hrs or 1-2 changes/year), the extra cost associated with synthetic is a personal decision.

For my flat-tappet motor, Ive read enough to convince me that oils containing additives (ZDDP, etc) may be a better way to go. A quality filter is important regardless of your choice in oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 3:01pm
TRBenj, I completely agree with your mind set, Rotella and a FL1A Motorcraft,chang it as the book say's and live a long and prosperous life Luke Skywalker.......boat dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 3:43pm
Doc, Ive read that both Rotella-T and Valvoline Racing oil have the extra additives. As far as filters go, Motorcraft, Wix (which Napa rebrands as their own) and Purolator are all very good. Mobil 1 is very good as well, but 2-3x the price as the others. Definitely avoid Fram.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 3:52pm
TRBenj, too many schools and warranty issues involved in denied claims. Run the stuff that came on the unit from the factory.
Mercruiser will not pay on a claim that involves synthetic,engine or drive train.To me that's a strong statement ,don't use the stuff and ask us to foot the bill on parts or labor............boat dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lorenr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 4:21pm


I've had a little experience with synthetic oils. Here are some experiences.

I used conventional oil in my 82 351 ci PCM that would run to almost 40 MPH. At about 700 hours we really overheated it when my girlfriend took her buddies out watersking. She sheared the fresh water impellor.

I thought the motor was damaged and took the heads apart. Everything was fine including the valve guides, but used the opportunity the port the heads, install duel valve springs, better retainers, perform a three angle valve job, install a true roller timing chain and a performer intake manifold and new 1860 Holley. The boat responded by going 47 MPH.

At about 900 hours I started using Synthetic Mobil 1 that I'd drained out of my car after running it 4000 miles. The boat again responded by idling a lot smoother even to 650 RPM. I also think the boat picked up a little power. No leaks at all and no oil usage during the entire season.

At about 1200 hours I stopped being so cheap and started using Walmart's brand of Full Synthetic Oil and their filter. The total for both was $15.00. With fresh oil the boat runs even smoother.

I damaged the 1 to 1 BW transmission from a loose propeller shaft and completely rebuilt it at 1100 hrs and started using Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF in it. I believe the ATF made a difference here also making the transmission quieter.

I'm sold on the stuff after looking into one of my car motors and running synthetic for about a 100,000 miles.

I see that Shell oil has a full synthetic Rotella for those of us running new flat tappet camshafts. It contains the additives that cam manufacturers want to break in their camshafts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 6:13pm
Lorenr,I would not tell that story to my best friend,the only thing I can say is I hope you did not put used oil in a Correct Craft.
And you go on to say you sprurged on a 15.00 dollar oil change,then ruined a tranny from a loose prop shaft,Dad had a saying that applies perfectly in this case.
Penny wise and dollar foolish..........

The additives are not there only for the cam break-in , the lifters need the heavy metals for a long life,Run cheap oil and filters, don't tighten any bolts and God forbid ,Do Not Install A New Impeller Every Season...............boat dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 05 210 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 6:35pm
    My dealer uses Valvoline in the boats,so Tim's onto something there.My bro-in-law runs his own excavation equipment,is anal about maintanence and has researched oils.He will only use Rotella T. Tim's onto something again.
    As far as extended oil changes in new cars,they are mandated by the EPA for waste disposal purposes.Doesn't mean you have to go that long,just that they hope you will cause the manufacture is telling you it's ok.
    As for warranty claims,if they insist that you use a particular product to keep from voiding your warranty...federal law says they must provide it to you free of charge.

       Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lorenr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 6:45pm
boat dr,

I know that my post seems odd, but I really have been doing this for a long time. Read my post carefully. I put that stuff in there for a reason.

I built drag racing engines and transmissions for a long time before I got smart and bought a ski boat. I like the rest of you, started out by using the best parts and maintenance programs possible. However, I wasn't as fast as other guys so I wondered what it was that made their motors better. What I found was "forget all the romance BS and pay attention to the basics".

I've seen guys run their used oil through cheese cloth before putting it back in the motor.

You could easily run synthetic engine oil for 10,000 miles, filter it properly and put back in the motor. No kidding.

Probably the hardest thing for fresh water cooled engines is condensate in the oil pan.(motor does not get hot enough to boil off the moisture) That might be the only reason to change the oil.

Lorenr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by Lorenr Lorenr wrote:

boat dr,

I know that my post seems odd, but I really have been doing this for a long time. Read my post carefully. I put that stuff in there for a reason.

I built drag racing engines and transmissions for a long time before I got smart and bought a ski boat.


My buddy still races and he quit using that Moble 1 junk after it smoked his motor because of the oil. Dad never talked highly of Moble gas when he had his service station when I was a kid. I'll never use the junk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 8:32pm
Mercruiser will not pay on a claim that involves synthetic,engine or drive train.To me that's a strong statement ,don't use the stuff and ask us to foot the bill on parts or labor............boat dr
Maintain the motor at regular intervals{50hrs.}10/30 or 20/50, ain't nuttin special about that,just don't expect them to pay if you deviate.

As for warranty claims,if they insist that you use a particular product to keep from voiding your warranty...federal law says they must provide it to you free of charge.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 8:51pm
I bought a new 05 Silverado last year with a 5.3 HO. I switched to Amsoil at 6000 miles. Engine, transfer case and differentials. My mileage got better by about 1.5 mpg. I go about 12k between oil and filter changes. The oil stays clean and I don't use a drop. It works great for me. $65 per oil change, but only twice a year. For the boats, I'm only running it in my 03 Indmar because I was talked into supposedly better lubrication properties than dino. I'm not convinced it's worth it because I change it at 50 hours and it's pricey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 9:01pm
when do you get to a point in a motors life when you decide i better run synthetic?
Ive never got to that point yet and probably never will unless its designed for use with synthetic oil. along with transmissions, synthetics are great for mechanical transmissions but in many cases not for hydraulic transmissions in fact in some of the higher performance transmissions we build we recomended type F because it has an additive that increases co-efficience of friction which means the pack wont break loose as it would with normal ATF and with the introduction of synthetics you have more of a chance to allow the clutches to slip. Ive never heard anyone say the engine failed cause i changed the oil when i was suppose to. it's the engines that fail when your on 5 season intervals on boats and every 50,000 on a car
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 9:22pm
Eric, from the mouth comes wisdom,from the anus comes sh----, well you know.
but is it not true that all i have to do is put gas in it????
loose drive shaft and used motor oil keeps me in biddness, also pays for my new polished Hi-Teks...........boat dr
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