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Engine rebuild questions

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73SN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Engine rebuild questions
    Posted: August-13-2012 at 5:19pm
Engine rebuild questions

Looks like I'll be rebuilding/replacing my 351W.

Clacking noise when it cranks then quickly dies.
I pulled the valve covers and the oil is mixed with water. Not sure if there is a hole in the block or what. I'll be pulling the intake manifold and the heads tonight after work to see what I can see.

I've replaced car engines and done a good bit with old Ford engines but never rebuilt any, but I figured I can tackle this with some help from the Grand Poobahs and such.

I know I may be getting ahead of myself but, if it is the block am I going to have a tough time finding a replacement?

If the block is in good condition can I rebuild it without removing the engine?

I've seen the reverse-rotation rebuild kits on ebay for $525. Is there a better place to buy, a better price anywhere?

What else should I rebuild or replace while I’m in there?

Getting tired of being towed…

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jllogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2012 at 5:21pm
take it out, it really isnt that hard and trust me working on an engine stand is way easier and faster than climbing in and out of the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2012 at 10:32pm
Paul do yourself a favor and get this book
You will have to pull it,to properly rebuild you might have to bore it and have the crank turned and that cannot be done with it still in.Pull it apart and have a machine shop check it out and make sure they know it's marine and reverse rotation. Then if you need a block go from there. Don't know where your at but I checked the Chicago Craigs List and there were several 351's on there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-21-2012 at 12:36am
I just finished engine replacement in my 71 Martinique. It's really easy. Be sure to mark everything and take pictures of your cooling piping. A good rebuild manual is a must. I bought a long block LM318 from marineengine.com. I swapped necessary parts from old to new and bolted it in. Good luck and enjoy.
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73SN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-21-2012 at 1:00am
Secured a hoist and stand Saturday. down to the block without a cam shaft and still don't know what the issue is. Should've had it out Sunday but been busy. Short block may be in the cards. I'll know this week.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2012 at 4:23pm
Spun a rod bearing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turningpoint84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2012 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by 71CCMartinique 71CCMartinique wrote:

I just finished engine replacement in my 71 Martinique. It's really easy. Be sure to mark everything and take pictures of your cooling piping. A good rebuild manual is a must. I bought a long block LM318 from marineengine.com. I swapped necessary parts from old to new and bolted it in. Good luck and enjoy.



How much did you pay, and did you bother to shop around? I might do this myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2012 at 12:35am
I shopped around and compared the cost to rebuild and to replace. I found my best buy at marineengine.com. It was around $2300 for a delivered long block with a 2 year warranty. The problems I had during swap were self inflicted. Motor fired right away and runs great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2012 at 12:27am
TS/Hurricane Isaac kept me from taking the parts to the machine shop today: $1016 for machine labor. I'll handle it Friday.
I estimate RevRot engine rebuild kit at $300-$500.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-03-2012 at 9:49am
I dropped off the engine parts at the machine shop Friday.
I have a couple of friends who have done engine builds, one who has an encyclopedic knowledge of engines, but seems to be a bit unsure on the reverse rotation. Well, he's pretty sure of himself, I just need reassuring.
Ford 351W in a '73 Ski Nautique:
When I disassembled the crank portion the pistons had notches facing the front of the engine (like normal), the rods and caps were numbered 1-8 (like normal): front to rear 1-4 on the right and 5-8 on the left.
The guy at the machine shop said he thought the pistons notches were supposed to face the rear on a reverse rotation engine (mentioned working on Mercury for years). I told him I was positive (video and photo reference) the pistons were arrange normally. He said there had to be an "offset" to prevent "slap" if that was the case and he would check/measure for it.
He thought someone may have dropped in an engine at some point, but:
The rod bearings dated 8 72 and the mains had 10 2, whatever that means.
Anyone have any experience, thoughts, or comments?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-04-2012 at 12:04pm
Paul,you have to go by what pistons you use. 0 offset they can go in either way,offset pistons then they would need to be reversed. The reason IMO the Mercruiser guy thinks they need to be reversed is that they are usually Chevys.Ford small blocks are 0 offset. Might be wise to check with piston manufacturer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2012 at 10:50am
Gary is spot on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2012 at 4:58pm
Cracked block... looking for a replacement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2012 at 5:54pm
Unfortunately that was to be expected with the water in the oil, then the water causes the spun bearing. You are gonna need a block that has the same rear seal configuration that you have. If it is one piece then get a one piece, two, get a two. Other than that you simply need a 351w block.. you could get one from a junk yard and have it machined or buy one that has already been recovered and machined.   

Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2012 at 7:17pm
I'm looking locally for a block now. It is a two piece rear seal. was looking forward to an engine build but may just buy a short block and be done with it, especially if I cant find a block. I spoke with Mabbco folks in TX, $795 +shpng for reverse rotation short block using my cam (reground).

still looking around tho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 3:48am
quick question: I'm doing my assembly, what's the best sealer to use on the rear main seal cap? The book says silicone but I'm wondering if Permatex 2B non-hardening or something else would be ok.
Also, may not be pertinent but I had the crank machined to take a one-piece rear main seal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 6:27am
If you're asking about the rear main cap, it gets an anaerobic sealant. It's important to get the right stuff; Loctite calls it gasket maker 518. It's also important to put it only where it's supposed to go. My PCM manual has a shaded drawing that helps.

If we're talking about the same thing, I would question the quality of that book.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 6:33am
How is it coming along? Pics? Raw knuckles?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 10:50am
Greg - did you pull the short straw on graveyard guard duty?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 11:02am
Honored to serve.

He really didn't want silicone in that spot; still assuming we are talking about the same spot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 12:13pm
yep, rear main cap. The book (HPBooks) is pretty good but there have been a few things that I've questioned in it, like:"Seal the Rear-Main Cap- ..Run a small bead of silicone sealer-about 1/16 of an inch wide-in the corners of the cylinder blocks rear-main-bearing register..."
It also had some strange comments about the distributor & the firing order.

The Permatex 2B non-hardening is labeled "Form*A Gasket Sealant".
not sure if its anaerobic or not.
I'll run by NAPA later and see what they've got.

All-in-all the build going OK.
I've had to return the rings because the gaps were too big.
The cost has been a bit more than I expected but I'm trying to add reliability with ARP rod bolts and oil pump shaft, and that type of thing.
I've had to do a good bit of reading since its my first one. I haven't gotten deep into it yet but I gotta tell you guys I appreciate y'all being here.
I'll post some pics to photo bucket and post a link.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 1:21pm
I use that permatex aviation form a seal for lots of things, but not that spot. If you have to pull it all apart(beacuse the rear main is leaking) just to put the right stuff in there, you'll invent dirty words.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 2:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 4:06pm
I guess the NoFollow keeps the link from working. just copy and paste for pics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 4:23pm
It's all RTV these days kids - OEMs have gone to using it extensively on new engines, transmission cases, etc. Including in the exact spot you are talking about. A good RTV between two surfaces provides a nice seal, yes it doesnt stick to the outside of stuff well, and no you dont want to fill a big gap with it but it would work just fine here. As would the proper permatex product or anerobic sealant. Not using too much or too little here is the real trick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 5:05pm
Link No you just didn't do it right but here you go---
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-19-2012 at 6:16pm
Thanks Gary. I know html pretty well but haven't tried to figure out the whole links-in-a-forum thing yet...

I got the Anaerobic Permatex sealer at the fourth place I went to. $15 for a 16th of an inch bead in two small areas? I guess its what I'll use on the gaskets too.

Thanks guys! I'm back at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2013 at 5:41pm
Does anyone know where to get the exhaust gaskets for the 4-bolt round-type exhaust manifold? All I see on-line are the rectangular type. I can make them but I'm running short on time and would rather buy them if they're available.

The kit came with manifold-to-head gasket but I need the ones for the rear portion (riser?)and its caps and inlets, and thermostat manifold. (sorry, not sure what all the pieces are called).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2013 at 6:20pm
This type:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2013 at 7:06pm
its caps and inlets, and thermostat manifold:
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